[THIN] Re: TSCALE or Appsense
- From: Adam.Baum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:13:55 -0700
Angela,
Reboots can work wonders. Almost all my problems went away when I went
with a nightly reboot schedule. It has more to do with the apps than with
metaframe. My servers that have TS aware apps fair better than those that
don't. I have one that does so well it gets rebooted only once a month. I
have one with such a crummy app on it that it took all my might&magic just
to get it down to one reboot per day.
I've had mixed results with defragging. What I mean to say is that I can't
say that it's actually helped performance any. I do agree that defragging
a drive is good because eventually your drive will become what is know as
"hyper-fragmented". In NT 4, when a drive got to this state it started to
lose data. It was if the file systems lost track of sectors or something.
adam
"Angela Smith"
<angela_smith9@ho
tmail.com> To
Sent by: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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ists.org
Subject
[THIN] Re: TSCALE or Appsense
01/10/2007 06:03
AM
Please respond to
thin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
g
Hi Rick
I shall leave Memory Optimization enabled for a few weeks to see if it
improves.
Rick, you misunderstood me on the pagefile point. I was thinking of
rebooting the servers nightly to refresh the server resources just in case
the memory is not being freed up fully once the applications close. We
don't have the clearpagefileonexit option enabled (I made that mistake
once). We currently reboot our servers weekly. Was interested in seeing
if
its worth doing it nightly. On this point, do people also reboot their Web
Interface servers or dedicated Zone data Collectors or simply the servers
that farm the apps?
(1) Is your page file contiguous (start and maximum same size, check with
pagedfrag (sysinternals)
Pagefile is contigous. 4096 min and max. 1-2 servers run 2003 Enterprise
and have more than 4Gb RAM. These servers have 6Gb pagefiles. I know
Citrix
won't really use more than 4Gb RAM. Is it best I reduce the pagefile to
4Gb?
(2) What have you done by way of minimal system tuning, optimise memory for
applications etc?
I've got a tuning policy template that will help you do this without any
hacking
The farm was initially setup by Citrix so they used some of their own ADMs.
Theres alot of customisations but not sure if they are performance based.
Were you interested in any particular settings?
(3) Do you defrag your system disks on a regular basis?
- running a scheduled batch job to "defrag c:" at 3 AM every day is dead
simple
No. We don't defrag our disks at all. Is this something that will make a
noticable performance difference? I had a look at a few servers (ie ran
defrag manually) and it said it doesn't need defragging so I'll assume this
is OK for now but I may schedule this if its best practice. Do you defrag
your servers daily/weekly/monthly?
(4) How big are your user's profiles?
- if they get too big (over 6-8 MB) the extra system overhead from logins
and logouts will really hurt.
Profiles are between 1-2Mb. We redirect Application Data path, Desktop
path, My Pictures path and My Documents path to users TS Home Drive to keep
profiles small.
(5) have you tuned your back-end servers (file/print, domain controllers)
to
increase the network i/o queue size [ie maxmpxct/maxworkitems]
- I've got a tuning policy template for this that you can have.
I haven't tuned the File/Print server or the DC. Would be interested in
seeing your template..
(6) Is your network/switch port condifigauration set up properly. If you
take a large file, does it take the same time to copy to and to copy from
another system. Use %systemroot%\drive cache\i386\drivers.cab.
- that's an easy one for your network people if the speed isn't the same in
both directions.
According to networks team they are setup OK. Copy speed is OK also
(7) My memory is a bit lazy at the moment. Did you mention that the main
apps are browser based? What are you running?
The majority of our published applications are browser based. Some do use
Java.
I have installed a Smart Array Write cache on one server as a test to see
if
it makes a difference before I upgrade all my servers.
Hope this helps
Thanks
**********************************************************************
>From: "Rick Mack" <ulrich.mack@xxxxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [THIN] Re: TSCALE or Appsense
>Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 20:17:53 +1000
>
>Hi Angela,
>
>Wait a while. Depending on the frequency of application usage, it can take
>anything up to a few weeks to finish things up.
>
>And I guess the hard news is that with some applications DLL rebasing
works
>brilliantly, and with others it hardly does anything at all.
>
>We'll just have to wait and see. But in any event, flushing the pagefile
>will make the reboots take heaps longer and aside from some largely
>irrelevant security considerations, it won't do much else for you
>
>Anyway, maybe we've been answering the wrong questions, and going about
>this
>all the wrong way.
>
>Excessive paging is certainly going to slow your system down, but a
>constant
>companion to a high hard page fault rateis a lot of disk actvity with the
>disk busy time starting to stay too close to 100%.
>
>But there are other performance considerations as well, so I'd like to ask
>you a few questions:
>
>(1) Is your page file contiguous (start and maximum same size, check with
>pagedfrag (sysinternals)
>- provided you've got at least 4 GB of free contiguous disk space you can
>fix this
>
>(2) What have you done by way of minimal system tuning, optimise memory
for
>applications etc?
>I've got a tuning policy template that will help you do this without any
>hacking
>
>(3) Do you defrag your system disks on a regular basis?
>- running a scheduled batch job to "defrag c:" at 3 AM every day is dead
>simple
>
>(4) How big are your user's profiles?
>- if they get too big (over 6-8 MB) the extra system overhead from logins
>and logouts will really hurt.
>
>(5) have you tuned your back-end servers (file/print, domain controllers)
>to
>increase the network i/o queue size [ie maxmpxct/maxworkitems]
>- I've got a tuning policy template for this that you can have.
>
>(6) Is your network/switch port condifigauration set up properly. If you
>take a large file, does it take the same time to copy to and to copy from
>another system. Use %systemroot%\drive cache\i386\drivers.cab.
>- that's an easy one for your network people if the speed isn't the same
in
>both directions.
>
>(7) My memory is a bit lazy at the moment. Did you mention that the main
>apps are browser based? What are you running?
>
>That's a start and once that's all covered we might have some positive
>results from memory optimization.
>
>regards,
>
>Rick
>
>Ulrich Mack
>Commander Australia
>
>On 1/8/07, Angela Smith <angela_smith9@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>Hi Bernd / Rick
>>
>>I have enabled memory optimization and it made next to no difference (we
>>do
>>run MPS 4 Enterprise). Based on this, I may look at trailing Appsense to
>>see if this product makes a difference as the builtin tools obviously
>>don't
>>work too well in tuning IE.
>>
>>As a side note, do you think rebooting the servers nightly would assist
as
>>it would flush the swapfile? We currently reboot our servers weekly. We
>>have quite a few users complaining about performance so Im keen to try
>>anything.
>>
>>Thanks for your great responses
>>Angela
>>
>>
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