no, they really do write bad code. No need to defend them. :) You can't ever win on this list Lucas.... Greg -----Original Message----- From: Lucas Boyken [mailto:lboyken@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 5:08 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Rebooting Win2k Terminal servers Ok, since I've been taking some flack for the comments mentioning Microsoft and their inefficient code, I must clarify. For all you out there that simply LOVE Microsoft, they do have poorly written code. However, if you examine the situation, context and subject of this pointed comment, it is easy to understand why I expressed myself the way I did. Microsoft is a Large corporation. The left brain doesn't always talk to the right brain and vice versa. They write extremely complex and time consuming programs that have millions of lines of code and logic that at the end of the day must all fit together and work to a certain level of proficiency or the whole thing is garbage. Yes, Microsoft and every other programming company out there has a tough job. With all that said, though, when you are on top of the Mountain (King per say) you have to keep doing the job cleaner and better than everyone else. It is simply my opinion that Microsoft could be doing a better job. If they aren't careful, they will become a dinosaur and be seen just as they saw IBM in the early 80's. Hopefully this clears the air a little bit and all of you out there that take some kind of personal offense to the comments I have made about Microsoft, well then...you need help or something. They aren't your hometown baseball team or anything...they are just another big American corporation trying to take your money by making a product they think you need. By the way, I'm not a Linux/Unix hacker/cracker. I'm just an average, everyday computer consultant that has seen his fair share of many different software companies make mistakes that makes my life harder. If you make my life harder than it has to be, well, I'm going to say something not so nice about you. Thank you. Respectfully, Lucas W. Boyken Computer Systems Associates Account Manager / Technical Representative lboyken@xxxxxxxxx Company Phone: 800.222.7601 Office Phone: 515.332.2751 Fax: 515.332.5687 -----Original Message----- From: Tony Lyne [mailto:Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20 Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 3:53 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Rebooting Win2k Terminal servers That's another point Im going to mention to them as well. I have clients who run AS400's as transaction servers and every night = =3D =3D3D they perform scheduled reboots on the OS to keep them in top shape. So = =3D =3D3D its not just a MS thing. Tony Lyne Senior Systems Engineer=3D3D20 Computerland Central=3D3D20 P O Box 1470=3D3D20 PALMERSTON NORTH Telephone (+64) 06 3537300 Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800 Mobile (+64) 0274 720696 E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =3D3D information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are = =3D =3D3D not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =3D3D dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =3D3D prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me =3D3D immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. = Thank =3D =3D3D you. =3D3DA0 -----Original Message----- From: Braebaum, Neil [mailto:Neil.Braebaum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D20 Sent: Thursday, 12 June 2003 1:32 a.m. To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' Subject: [THIN] Re: Rebooting Win2k Terminal servers Comments inline... > -----Original Message----- > From: Lucas Boyken [mailto:lboyken@xxxxxxxxx]=3D3D20 > Sent: 11 June 2003 14:21 > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [THIN] Re: Rebooting Win2k Terminal servers >=3D3D20 > If you want to attack this from a different angle, you might=3D3D20 = be=3D20 >more successful. Try searching Technet or Microsoft.com=3D3D20 = for=3D20 >"memory leaks" and "windows 2000" or "NT" and you will=3D3D20 see = that=3D20 >Microsoft, of course, has a long running history of=3D3D20 memory = leak=3D20 >problems. The only solution for these problems=3D3D20 since the late = =3D 90's >(98, NT) has been reboots. This is per=3D3D20 Microsoft's=3D20 >recommendations. =3D3D20 > Also, researching clearing of RAM by cycling the machines=3D3D20 > would be helpful. Really, this will get you to the same=3D3D20 > place I mentioned above. The overall need for reboots on a=3D3D20 > Microsoft platform is due to the inefficient code that has=3D3D20 > been placed into their products. In fairness, memory leaks can be in the domain of applications. I'd agree, that poor garbage collection could be a cause, and that =3D3D Microsoft *applications* can be as guilty as any other - but you've only to look = =3D =3D3D at some Java implementations / applications, to realise that it's hardly =3D3D solely a Microsoft, nor an OS thing. Neil *********************************************************************** This e-mail and its attachments are confidential and are intended =3D for=3D3D20 the above named recipient only. 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