[THIN] Re: Opteron processors

  • From: "Brian Madden" <brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:21:03 -0400

Well I don't know how old that article is, but I can say it's a fact that MS is 
compiling and releasing 64-bit Windows (both XP and 2003) for AMD chips. As Tim 
said, that will also work on the new Intel chips when they come out next year.
 
I would imagine that support will be dropped for the Itanium chips relatively 
soon.
 
Brian
________________________________

From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Andrew Rogers
Sent: Thu 4/22/2004 4:06 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors



I was under the impression MS had said to both AMD and Intel something alon=
g the lines of "we're only writing ONE 64bit OS for your mainstream chips, =
which weve already done, so anything you make better work on it"
? :)

ooh, heres a quote from an article, although not the one i thought it was..
"Reports suggest that Microsoft, which is committed to producing a 64-bit v=
ersion of Windows for the Itanium processor, balked at supporting two more =
64-bit versions, for AMD's x86-64 and Intel's Yamhill. (Microsoft once supp=
orted Windows NT ports for a number of processors including MIPS, Alpha and=
 PowerPC). AMD founder Jerry Sanders extracted a commitment from Bill Gates=
 to port Windows to x86-64, although we're still waiting for this to appear=
." (theregister.co.uk)

and

"Microsoft's Steve Ballmer announced that the company was today shipping th=
e latest beta build of Windows with support for the Xeon processor's 64-bit=
 addressing extensions."

Andrew
--o--

>>> tmangan@xxxxxxxxxxxx 21/04/04 23:39:06 >>>
Microsoft has two versions of the 64 bit server OS in beta right now. One is
for the Intel 64 bit solution, and the other is for the 64/32 bit solution
that AMD has now and Intel will have soon.  The real question on support is
whether Microsoft will continue to support the 64-bit only version in the
long run.  I'm sure that those owning those boxes today are asking Microsoft
that question.

As I indicated earlier, I am very curious on what gets left out of the 64/32
solution.  For example, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that 64/32/16 isn't
there.  And I am concerned over app compatibility for apps, bust mostly
those that have kernel driver components. I think that those vendors need a
recompile -- and maybe a few code lines to change too.

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Steve Greenberg
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 1:03 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors


Do you know what happens with Intel releases their 32/64 platform soon? =3D=
 (
I think it code named Nakoma or something like that?) I wonder if they =3D
will all require separate versions of the 64 bit OS?

Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax=3D20
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20



-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =3D
Behalf Of Brian Madden
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 9:59 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors


Yes, you can roam back and forth between 32- and 64-bit environments, =3D a=
nd
your profiles, GPOs, login scripts, etc, etc, will all work.

>From a "logical" standpoint, there's no real difference to most =3D
components
between the two.

The only downside to 64-bit that I've seen is that 64-bit Windows =3D requi=
res
64-bit hotfixes, etc. A year ago there was some delay when patches were
available between the two platforms. (TSE revisited?) Of course, that =3D w=
as
for Itanium and no one cared. Since Opteron seems to be more popular =3D (a=
nd
waaaaaaay cheaper), this will probably change.

Brian

Brian Madden
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
+1.202.302.3657
Visit www.brianmadden.com for in-depth Citrix, Terminal Server, and
server-based computing news and analysis, white papers, downloadable =3D
videos, and product reviews.

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =3D
Behalf Of Steve Greenberg
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 11:46 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors


That is great news. Can the profiles be roaming and share between 32 and =3D
=3D3D3D
64 bit envirnoments?

Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax=3D3D3D20
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20



-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =3D =
=3D3D
=3D3D3D Behalf Of Brian Madden
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 9:26 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors


Good news! In the case of 64-bit Windows, all those components =3D3D3D
(profiles, printers, shares, etc, etc) have also been compiled for =3D 64-b=
it
since =3D3D3D they're part of the OS.

About a year ago I did a fairly large rollout of pure Windows 2003 =3D3D3D
Terminal Services on Itanium boxes (with the 64-bit version of Windows =3D
2003
for Itanium).

Like I said before, MetaFrame itself did NOT work. However, all of the
Windows components worked great. AD, GPOs, profiles, home drives, etc, =3D =
=3D3D
=3D3D3D etc, were flawless. In fact, users didn't even know their remote TS=
 =3D
sessions =3D3D3D were running on a 64-bit OS.

All of the "standard" windows stuff, system variables, system32 folder, =3D
=3D3D3D IE, temp folders, etc, etc are the same. Logon scripts, kitxtart...
all =3D that stuff works fine in production on Itanium-based 64-bit Windows
2003 =3D =3D3D3D Terminal Servers.

I don't think that our whole TS world is going to instantly shift to =3D =
=3D3D3D
64-bit. However, for those people who have large servers who are
experiencing =3D3D =3D3D3D PTE limits, etc, Opteron is going to be hella =
=3D cool!

Brian

Brian Madden
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
+1.202.302.3657
Visit www.brianmadden.com for in-depth Citrix, Terminal Server, and
server-based computing news and analysis, white papers, downloadable =3D =
=3D3D3D
videos, and product reviews.

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =3D =
=3D3D
=3D3D3D Behalf Of Steve Greenberg
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 11:09 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors


I am mainly skeptical about things potential issues with user settings,
application of policies, accessing network printere, etc. I suspect that =3D
=3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D you will be able to run 32 under 64, but I have to be s=
hown
it =3D to =3D3D3D believe =3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D that it would integrate nic=
ely in
real =3D world environments.

Think of the whole history of the "WOW" subsystem and running DOS in
Windows......

Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax=3D3D3D3D3D20
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20



-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =3D =
=3D3D
=3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D Behalf Of Brian Madden
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 9:00 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors


Yeah, everyone was skeptical of this, but it seems to be true. ("It" =3D =
=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D3D being that 32-bit apps really do run as fast on a 64-bit OS on
Opteron =3D3D =3D3D3D as they =3D3D3D3D3D do on a "regular" 32-bit =3D
processor/OS.) I
won't post a link =3D3D =3D3D3D here since =3D3D3D3D3D it'll get mangled.. =
=3D Just
do a Google search for Opteron 64 =3D3D =3D3D3D bit performance and you'll =
find
=3D tons of stuff. Ars had a great review. So =3D3D =3D3D3D did Ace's.

64-bit Windows Server 2003 for Opteron processors is in public beta now =3D
=3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D and will be released at the same time as SP1 for Win200=
3.

As for testing... "Yes!" (That was my original point of this thread way =3D
=3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D back
when.) I have an Opteron server on order. (It should be here next
week.) I have the beta of 64-bit Windows Server 2003 for Opteron. I have
MetaFrame. I'll post the test results as soon as they're ready.

Should be fun!

Brian

Brian Madden
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
+1.202.302.3657
Visit www.brianmadden.com for in-depth Citrix, Terminal Server, and
server-based computing news and analysis, white papers, downloadable =3D =
=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D3D videos, and product reviews. -----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =3D =
=3D3D
=3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D Behalf Of Steve Greenberg
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:40 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors


I accept that theoretically this is possible, I am just very skeptical =3D =
=3D3D
=3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D that it could a=
ctually
work =3D in practise and in =3D3D3D standard production =3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D=
3D3D3D
environments. =3D What is the status of 64 bit =3D3D =3D3D3D Windows? Would=
 it be
a simple enough test =3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D to get our hands =3D=
3D on
=3D3D3D WIN 64 code and try =3D3D3D3D =3D running =3D3D3D3D3D 32bit apps on=
 64 bit
=3D3D3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D Terminal =3D3D3D =3D services?

Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax=3D3D3D3D3D3D3D20
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20



-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =3D =
=3D3D
=3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D Behalf Of Brian=
 Madden
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 4:26 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors


Yes, I am definitely saying that you can run a 64-bit OS with 32-bit =3D =
=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D apps on an Opteron. This is why the Opteron is =
=3D so
sweet!

It basically has three modes of operation:

1.) 32-bit OS (or 16-bit or whatever) You can install Win95 on an =3D =3D3D=
3D3D
=3D3D =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D Opteron. Or DOS.

2.) 64-bit OS with 32-bit apps. This is called "legacy" mode.

3.) 64-bit OS with 64-bit apps. For now the only 64/64 combinations are
things like 64-bit SUSE with 64-bit Unreal Tournament server... stuff =3D =
=3D3D
=3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D like that.

But, you totally, absolutely, 100% can run 32-bit apps on a 64-bit OS on =3D
=3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D an Opteron will no performance loss. Th=
e =3D
question is whether MetaFrame =3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D will install as an "app=
" and
work =3D fine being =3D3D 32-bit =3D3D3D or whether it's tied too tightly i=
nto the
OS, and =3D therefore must be 64-bit.

Brian

Brian Madden
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
+1.202.302.3657
Visit www.brianmadden.com for in-depth Citrix, Terminal Server, and
server-based computing news and analysis, white papers, downloadable =3D =
=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D videos, and product reviews.

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