[THIN] Re: Opteron processors

  • From: "Brian Madden" <brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:19:20 -0400

I don't agree with this. There are two different 64-bit modes for
Opteron processors (in addition to the full 32-bit legacy mode). Unlike
the Itanium chips, Opteron can run a 64-bit OS in "legacy" mode. In this
mode, it can run 32-bit applications at full speed. (i.e. No performance
hit for "thunking" or anything like that like when running 32-bit apps
on 64-bit Windows for Itanium.) While 32-bit apps don't get the
advantages of 64-bit integer calculations and stuff, they do get the
advantages of all the extra registers, etc. that AMD built into the
chips.

These 32-bit apps running on a 64-bit Windows OS will still each have
their own 4GB memory space. However, the system itself will be 64-bit,
so the system will not have the 4GB memory limit. (In this mode,
technically, the system uses a 48-bit memory address, so it's not "true"
64-bit computing, but it's exponentially greater than the 4GB limit of
the 32-bit world.)

This means that all the kernel memory limit issues we had before
(running out of PTEs, system file cache, nonpaged pool, etc.) will no
longer be limits, so we could (for example) build 8-way Opteron systems
with maybe 16GB of memory to support 500-1000 users.

I would think that a 64-bit MetaFrame would do great things in this
environment.

On a side note, I'm not sure if 32-bit MetaFrame will work here. (So
maybe we don't even need 64-bit MetaFrame for now? Although I doubt
32-bit MF will work.) This will be the first thing I test when I get my
Opteron box next week. I already have the beta of Windows 2003 64-bit
for AMD, with SP1 slipstreamed.

Also, fwiw.. I tried installing 32-bit MetaFrame on a 64-bit version of
Windows Server 2003 for an Itanium 2 box about a year ago. MetaFrame
wouldn't even run.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Steve Greenberg
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 9:35 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors


The availability of 64 bit Terminal Services and/or Metaframe is only as
useful as the applications available for it. Since TS and MF are all =3D
about
delivering GUI based apps, I have a feeling it may be quite a while  =3D
before
a 64 bit version is available and practical.


Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax=3D20
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx



-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D
Behalf
Of Brian Madden
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 7:23 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors


Just FYI, Citrix has been "working" on a 64-bit version of MetaFrame for
years now.

When I spoke with product manager (Brian Nason) and the CTO (Bob
Krueger) last October, neither would confirm 64-bit MF. They just said =
=3D
that
they would follow customer demand. (So demand it if you want it!!)

I'm sure Citrix will release a 64-bit version of MF eventually, =3D
especially
once Intel releases their version of the Opterons next year... Just =3D
don't
hold your breath for it.

On a side note, remember that whatever Bear Paw turns out to be will
presumably also be available in 64-bit flavors.. :-)

Brian

Brian Madden
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
+1.202.302.3657
Visit www.brianmadden.com for in-depth Citrix, Terminal Server, and
server-based computing news and analysis, white papers, downloadable =3D
videos,
and product reviews.

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D
Behalf
Of Schill, Mark
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:48 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors

We have an Opteron box in our lab that I have scheduled to do some tests
=3D
on.
In an Intel roadmap session today the Intel rep stated that Citrix is
working on a 64 bit version of MetaFrame.

Mark E. Schill, CCA
BellSouth Technology Group
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D
Behalf
Of Brian Madden
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 12:11 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors

I have an Opteron box on order. It should be here next week. I'll be =3D
trying
out the 64-bit version of windows as well as the 32-bit version with
MetaFrame. Of course I'll post my results.

Any other tests I should do??

Brian

Brian Madden
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
+1.202.302.3657
Visit www.brianmadden.com for in-depth Citrix, Terminal Server, and
server-based computing news and analysis, white papers, downloadable =3D
videos,
and product reviews.

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D
Behalf
Of Ron Oglesby
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 8:01 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors

No but I want to....  I also want to try a 64bit running 2k3. B

Ron Oglesby
Senior Technical Architect
Microsoft MVP - Windows Server
=3D3D3D3D20
RapidApp, Chicago
Mobile 815 325-7618
Office 312 372-7188
e-mail roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
=3D3D3D3D20

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D
Behalf
Of Nick Smith
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 3:59 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Opteron processors

Does anyone have any experience, good/bad/indifferent yet with running =
=3D
TS on
hardware using Opteron processors? Nick
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