[THIN] Re: Office and legalities

  • From: Jeremy Saunders <jeremy.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 20:06:05 +0800

I don't think so, because isn't that user control? What if a manager, that
has access to Office, and is licensed from his Terminal, logs into a
Terminal in the warehouse and runs up Office on that, which is not licensed
for Office. Then he has broken the licensing agreement. SRP and NTFS
permissions cannot control this (prevent Office from running from that
Terminal). The way we understand it is that if and when the customer is
audited, they will be asked to show how they prevent Office apps from being
run from these devices. But it seems as though many of us have different
opinions on this. And it's good to see that we aren't the only ones that
have struggled to ensure that our customers have a totally legal deployment
of Office on Terminal Servers. You can only do your best. Different
opinions is what make the world go around. :)

Anyway, thanks for pointing out the new rules. At least they are starting
to become more realistic with their approach to this subject for the good
of the SMB's.

Cheers,
Jeremy.



                                                                           
             "Jeff Pitsch"                                                 
             <jepitsch@xxxxxxx                                             
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                                       [THIN] Re: Office and legalities    
             03/10/2006 07:29                                              
             PM                                                            
                                                                           
                                                                           
             Please respond to                                             
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SRP and NTFS to name a couple of free ways of doing it.

Again, as I said, ask 3 different licensing people and get 4 different
answers.  This has always been the truth with Microsoft.



Jeff Pitsch
Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
Provision Networks VIP


Forums not enough?
Get support from the experts at your business
http://jeffpitschconsulting.com





On 10/2/06, Jeremy Saunders <jeremy.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
  Interesting Jeff....they've gone and changed it.

  These scenarios are very different to previous. Scenarios 1, 6 and 7
  clearly state that we can do, what they clearly stated we couldn't do
  when
  we discussed this with them earlier in the year. That's very frustrating.

  Even though customers can take advantage of Scenario 1, there is no
  control
  mechanism in place to manage this. The only real answer seems to be using
  Appsense Application Manager to prevent access to these applications by a
  per-device mechanism. Otherwise, how do you prevent someone from logging
  in
  and launching an Office app from a Terminal that is not licensed to run
  it?

  Cheers.

  Kind regards,

  Jeremy Saunders
  Senior Technical Specialist

  Infrastructure Technology Services
  (ITS) & Cerulean
  Global Technology Services (GTS)
  IBM Australia
  Level 2, 1060 Hay Street
  West Perth WA 6005

  Visit us at
  http://www.ibm.com/services/au/its

  P: +61 8 9261 8412                F: +61 8 9261 8486
  M: TBA                            E-mail:
                                     jeremy.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxx











              "Jeff Pitsch"
              <jepitsch@xxxxxxx
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                                        [THIN] Re: Office and legalities
              30/09/2006 04:55
              AM


              Please respond to
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                      g






  That's not true Jeremy.  The paper I linked explains that it's not true.
  It used to be that way but not anymore.



  Jeff Pitsch
  Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
  Provision Networks VIP


  Forums not enough?
  Get support from the experts at your business
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  On 9/29/06, Jeremy Saunders < jeremy.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
  I'm not 100% sure about that one as the OEM or Retail license means that
  the device still has a license. But yes, if you've got Pro installed on
  your Terminal/Citrix Server, then they'll need Pro at home.

  Microsoft Office licenses are per device, not user. Therefore, every
  device
  that connects to your Terminal/Citrix Servers must have a license.

  The only way to control this is to use Appsense Application Manager,
  which
  has been certified by Microsoft for this purpose. Changing NTFS
  permissions, etc, is not acceptable in Microsoft's eyes.

  It took us 6 months to get this clarified by Microsoft. Even the
  licensing
  people had to go away and think about it because they couldn't understand
  their own licensing agreement. They all have their own interpretation. In
  the end we had several Microsoft people in the To and CC fields of this
  e-mail that went backwards and forwards as we were sick and tired of
  getting different answers.

  So now whenever we do a deployment where a customer does not have an
  Enterprise or Select agreement, we will sell them Appsense Application
  Manager. In Australia that works out to be about $2,500 per server. There
  is a whitepaper on the Appsense web site discussing this.

  Cheers.

  Kind regards,

  Jeremy Saunders
  Senior Technical Specialist

  Infrastructure Technology Services
  (ITS) & Cerulean
  Global Technology Services (GTS)
  IBM Australia
  Level 2, 1060 Hay Street
  West Perth WA 6005

  Visit us at
  http://www.ibm.com/services/au/its

  P: +61 8 9261 8412                F: +61 8 9261 8486
  M: TBA                            E-mail:
                                       jeremy.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxx











               "Matthew
               Shrewsbury"
               <MShrewsbury@COSC
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                                         [THIN] Re: Office and legalities

               30/09/2006 01:10
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  I spoke to Microsoft about this and they where even more particular
  about this. They said the home version had to be the same version
  (Standard/Pro)and had to be the same license model E.G Open Business. Of
  course most people with home computers are going to have OEM or Retail.
  They said they did make exceptions for one time uses at Kiosks.

  Matthew Shrewsbury, MCSE+Internet MCSE 2000 CCA Server+
  Network Manager

  -----Original Message-----
  From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
  Behalf Of Beckett, William (Bill)
  Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 1:04 PM
  To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [THIN] Re: Office and legalities

  From home is a different story. I thought your email referred to work
  PC's. Either way, home PC's would have to have a licensed copy of Office
  installed to access Office from a Terminal Server OR Citrix, whatever
  your case may be.


  -----Original Message-----
  From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ] On
  Behalf Of Adam.Baum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 12:59 PM
  To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Cc: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [THIN] Re: Office and legalities

  OK...Here's the hitch..It says that if "the device" is licensed, it can
  run in  TS too.  Most of my home users do not have office, therefore
  their "device" is not licensed.  Thus the requirement to purchase
  another copy of office.  Our work laptops are licensed so they get a
  free ride.

  adam





               "Jeff Pitsch"

               <jepitsch@xxxxxxx

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                                         [THIN] Re: Office and legalities

               09/29/2006 09:56

               AM





               Please respond to

               thin@xxxxxxxxxxxx

                       g









  That document is straight from Microsoft's website.

  Remember with microsoft, you can ask 3 different licensing experts and
  get
  4 different answers.  This paper is in writing.



  Jeff Pitsch
  Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
  Provision Networks VIP


  Forums not enough?
  Get support from the experts at your business
  http://jeffpitschconsulting.com





  On 9/29/06, Adam.Baum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <Adam.Baum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > wrote:
  Interesting...where did you get this info?  We had MS come right in
  and
  tell us we were not in compliance with licensing for Office.

  adam




                "Beckett, William
                \(Bill\)"
                <bill.beckett@ste
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                                          [THIN] Re: Office and legalities

                09/29/2006 08:33
                AM


                Please respond to
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                        g






  Huh, that's not what the documentation says. It says that if a device
  is
  licensed and has office installed, then that device is allowed to run
  office from a terminal server session. Directly from the doc -




  Q.
  Once a device is licensed for a Desktop Application can I use that
  application both locally on the device and through Terminal Services?

  A.
  Yes.  A Desktop Application license gives the licensee the right to
  locally install the software and also to use the same software through
  Terminal Services. The licensee, however, is not required to locally
  install the software and, in the case of Terminal Services, local
  installation may not be technically possible or desired.

  Q.
  If I already have a device is license for a Desktop Application, what
  additional licenses do I need to use that device as a remote client
  within a Terminal Services environment?

  A.
  If the device owned by the end user is already licensed for the
  Desktop
  Application software, only the Windows Server and Terminal Services
  licenses are necessary for remote Terminal Services usage of that
  Desktop Application.


  -----Original Message-----
  From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ] On
  Behalf Of Adam.Baum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:22 AM
  To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [THIN] Re: Office and legalities

  We found out the hard way (from Microsoft) that Office licensing in a
  TS
  environment is not so simple.  MS does not offer a special licensing
  program for Office.  If your MF users also have Office on their
  desktops, then you will need additional licenses to use it in the TS
  world.  We have
  500+ metaframe users who have Office on their work desktops.
  Microsoft
  came back and said we need an additional license for each user if they
  want to run it from metaframe.  We ended up publishing Office to only
  those users/workgroups that purchased the additional licensing.  The
  bulk of our users get the Office viewers when they remote in.

  By the way, these are NOT concurrent licenses.  They must be per user
  and limited to those users who have purchased the additional licenses.

  adam





                "Beckett, William

                \(Bill\)"

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                09/29/2006 07:02

                AM





                Please respond to

                thin@xxxxxxxxxxxx

                        g









  Can I get some people to weigh in on the following scenario? -


  With a published application environment, you can restrict who gets
  access to what. If you don't want someone running office on a Citrix
  box, then you can prevent them from running Office on a Citrix box. So
  let's say I have 5 MS office 2003 licenses. I install it and publish
  it
  for 5 users in the farm. Am I legal within those boundaries from a
  Microsoft licensing perspective? Enviroment is Win2003 TS with PS 4.0



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