Interesting Jeff....they've gone and changed it. These scenarios are very different to previous. Scenarios 1, 6 and 7 clearly state that we can do, what they clearly stated we couldn't do when we discussed this with them earlier in the year. That's very frustrating. Even though customers can take advantage of Scenario 1, there is no control mechanism in place to manage this. The only real answer seems to be using Appsense Application Manager to prevent access to these applications by a per-device mechanism. Otherwise, how do you prevent someone from logging in and launching an Office app from a Terminal that is not licensed to run it? Cheers. Kind regards, Jeremy Saunders Senior Technical Specialist Infrastructure Technology Services (ITS) & Cerulean Global Technology Services (GTS) IBM Australia Level 2, 1060 Hay Street West Perth WA 6005 Visit us at http://www.ibm.com/services/au/its P: +61 8 9261 8412 F: +61 8 9261 8486 M: TBA E-mail: jeremy.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxx "Jeff Pitsch" <jepitsch@xxxxxxx om> To Sent by: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx thin-bounce@freel cc ists.org Subject [THIN] Re: Office and legalities 30/09/2006 04:55 AM Please respond to thin@xxxxxxxxxxxx g That's not true Jeremy. The paper I linked explains that it's not true. It used to be that way but not anymore. Jeff Pitsch Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server Provision Networks VIP Forums not enough? Get support from the experts at your business http://jeffpitschconsulting.com On 9/29/06, Jeremy Saunders <jeremy.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: I'm not 100% sure about that one as the OEM or Retail license means that the device still has a license. But yes, if you've got Pro installed on your Terminal/Citrix Server, then they'll need Pro at home. Microsoft Office licenses are per device, not user. Therefore, every device that connects to your Terminal/Citrix Servers must have a license. The only way to control this is to use Appsense Application Manager, which has been certified by Microsoft for this purpose. Changing NTFS permissions, etc, is not acceptable in Microsoft's eyes. It took us 6 months to get this clarified by Microsoft. Even the licensing people had to go away and think about it because they couldn't understand their own licensing agreement. They all have their own interpretation. In the end we had several Microsoft people in the To and CC fields of this e-mail that went backwards and forwards as we were sick and tired of getting different answers. So now whenever we do a deployment where a customer does not have an Enterprise or Select agreement, we will sell them Appsense Application Manager. In Australia that works out to be about $2,500 per server. There is a whitepaper on the Appsense web site discussing this. Cheers. Kind regards, Jeremy Saunders Senior Technical Specialist Infrastructure Technology Services (ITS) & Cerulean Global Technology Services (GTS) IBM Australia Level 2, 1060 Hay Street West Perth WA 6005 Visit us at http://www.ibm.com/services/au/its P: +61 8 9261 8412 F: +61 8 9261 8486 M: TBA E-mail: jeremy.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxx "Matthew Shrewsbury" <MShrewsbury@COSC To ANHOMES.com> <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent by: cc thin-bounce@freel ists.org Subject [THIN] Re: Office and legalities 30/09/2006 01:10 AM Please respond to thin@xxxxxxxxxxxx g I spoke to Microsoft about this and they where even more particular about this. They said the home version had to be the same version (Standard/Pro)and had to be the same license model E.G Open Business. Of course most people with home computers are going to have OEM or Retail. They said they did make exceptions for one time uses at Kiosks. Matthew Shrewsbury, MCSE+Internet MCSE 2000 CCA Server+ Network Manager -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Beckett, William (Bill) Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 1:04 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Office and legalities From home is a different story. I thought your email referred to work PC's. Either way, home PC's would have to have a licensed copy of Office installed to access Office from a Terminal Server OR Citrix, whatever your case may be. -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Adam.Baum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 12:59 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Office and legalities OK...Here's the hitch..It says that if "the device" is licensed, it can run in TS too. Most of my home users do not have office, therefore their "device" is not licensed. Thus the requirement to purchase another copy of office. Our work laptops are licensed so they get a free ride. adam "Jeff Pitsch" <jepitsch@xxxxxxx om> To Sent by: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx thin-bounce@freel cc ists.org Subject [THIN] Re: Office and legalities 09/29/2006 09:56 AM Please respond to thin@xxxxxxxxxxxx g That document is straight from Microsoft's website. Remember with microsoft, you can ask 3 different licensing experts and get 4 different answers. This paper is in writing. Jeff Pitsch Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server Provision Networks VIP Forums not enough? Get support from the experts at your business http://jeffpitschconsulting.com On 9/29/06, Adam.Baum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <Adam.Baum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > wrote: Interesting...where did you get this info? We had MS come right in and tell us we were not in compliance with licensing for Office. adam "Beckett, William \(Bill\)" <bill.beckett@ste To elcase.com > <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent by: cc thin-bounce@freel ists.org Subject [THIN] Re: Office and legalities 09/29/2006 08:33 AM Please respond to thin@xxxxxxxxxxxx g Huh, that's not what the documentation says. It says that if a device is licensed and has office installed, then that device is allowed to run office from a terminal server session. Directly from the doc - Q. Once a device is licensed for a Desktop Application can I use that application both locally on the device and through Terminal Services? A. Yes. A Desktop Application license gives the licensee the right to locally install the software and also to use the same software through Terminal Services. The licensee, however, is not required to locally install the software and, in the case of Terminal Services, local installation may not be technically possible or desired. Q. If I already have a device is license for a Desktop Application, what additional licenses do I need to use that device as a remote client within a Terminal Services environment? A. If the device owned by the end user is already licensed for the Desktop Application software, only the Windows Server and Terminal Services licenses are necessary for remote Terminal Services usage of that Desktop Application. -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ] On Behalf Of Adam.Baum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:22 AM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Office and legalities We found out the hard way (from Microsoft) that Office licensing in a TS environment is not so simple. MS does not offer a special licensing program for Office. If your MF users also have Office on their desktops, then you will need additional licenses to use it in the TS world. We have 500+ metaframe users who have Office on their work desktops. Microsoft came back and said we need an additional license for each user if they want to run it from metaframe. We ended up publishing Office to only those users/workgroups that purchased the additional licensing. The bulk of our users get the Office viewers when they remote in. By the way, these are NOT concurrent licenses. They must be per user and limited to those users who have purchased the additional licenses. adam "Beckett, William \(Bill\)" <bill.beckett@ste To elcase.com> <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent by: cc thin-bounce@freel ists.org Subject [THIN] Office and legalities 09/29/2006 07:02 AM Please respond to thin@xxxxxxxxxxxx g Can I get some people to weigh in on the following scenario? - With a published application environment, you can restrict who gets access to what. If you don't want someone running office on a Citrix box, then you can prevent them from running Office on a Citrix box. So let's say I have 5 MS office 2003 licenses. I install it and publish it for 5 users in the farm. Am I legal within those boundaries from a Microsoft licensing perspective? Enviroment is Win2003 TS with PS 4.0 ************************************************ For Archives, RSS, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: //www.freelists.org/list/thin ************************************************ ************************************************ For Archives, RSS, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: //www.freelists.org/list/thin ************************************************ ************************************************ For Archives, RSS, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: //www.freelists.org/list/thin ************************************************ ************************************************ For Archives, RSS, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: //www.freelists.org/list/thin ************************************************ ************************************************ For Archives, RSS, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: //www.freelists.org/list/thin ************************************************ ************************************************ For Archives, RSS, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: //www.freelists.org/list/thin ************************************************ ************************************************ For Archives, RSS, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: //www.freelists.org/list/thin ************************************************ ************************************************ For Archives, RSS, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: //www.freelists.org/list/thin ************************************************