[THIN] Re: OT: OT: What's the biggest problem you deal with?

  • From: "Joe Shonk" <joe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:44:59 -0700

Precisely, so for someone to say that Windows 2000 does not require a reboot
would be incorrect.  Microsoft's current system architect does not allow for
certain system components to be updated/patch with out restarting the
system.  Now people are being to understand why integrating components (i.e.
Internet Explorer) was considered a bad idea when Microsoft announced its
plans several years ago.  Having to reboot a server to update
vulnerabilities in Internet Explorer is inexcusable.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Bernd Harzog
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 2:43 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: OT: OT: What's the biggest problem you deal with?

Here is the deal on loading new DLL's and why rebooting is sometime =
unavoidable. If version 1.0 of a  process opens and then locks in 1.0 of =
foo.DLL in exclusive mode, and you then want to install a patch that =
contains version 1.1 of that process and version 1.1 foo.dll, you need =
to replace the old foo.dll with the new foo.dll. If the old one is =
locked while it is in use, then you delete it, rename it, or replace it =
as long is its parent process is running. The only way to replace a DLL =
that is in use is to do so upon reboot, by queuing up the replacement to =
occur right after the reboot (there is actually an official Windows =
mechanism for this), so that you can effect the replacement before the =
parent process starts. This is the ONLY way you can replace things that =
the OS itself uses.=20

Now if the path only replaces things called by certain system services, =
then you can try shutting down those services and see if you can do the =
replacement without a reboot. However, if you are talking about an OS =
patch, then it is very likely that the patch contains new versions of =
core system DLL's, in which case there is simply no avoiding the reboot.

Cheers,

Bernd Harzog
CEO
RTO Software, Inc.
bernd.harzog@xxxxxxxxxxx
678-455-5506 x701
www.rtosoft.com

 -----Original Message-----
From:   Steve Greenberg [mailto:steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
Sent:   Saturday, February 14, 2004 3:25 PM
To:     thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject:        [THIN] Re: OT: OT: What's the biggest problem you deal with?


Joe,=3D20

Is it possible somehow to unload, reload and register the files/DLLs in =
=3D
a
patch, i.e. execute the new versions without actually rebooting?



Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax=3D20
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx



-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D
Behalf
Of Joe Shonk
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 10:37 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: OT: OT: What's the biggest problem you deal with?


Did you not install the MS04-004 and MS04-007 hotfixes?  To keep a W2K
Server properly patches most certainly requires a reboot.  That is the =
=3D
=3D3D
issue I'm facing now, how to patch 400 servers without having to reboot.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D
=3D3D
Behalf Of Corn=3D3DE9 Bogaarts
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 4:35 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: OT: OT: What's the biggest problem you deal with?

Windows 2000 doesn't need a reboot (neither Server, nor Professional),
however the applications do. And since you're running 'client apps' like =
=3D
=3D3D
MS Office, etc. on a=3D3D20 server, you have to reboot the server. =
That's =3D
the
main difference =3D3D between a Win2K TS and Win2K on almost any other =
=3D
server.

Most developers simply assume they're programming for a PC that is =3D3D
shutdown every night, so why should they bother about memory-leaks and
longterm stablity.

My 2 cts.

13-2-2004 20:44:46, "Spencer Sun" <ssun@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

>
>
>
>On a side note, I was wondering how many of you have a reboot =
schedule=3D20
>enable on your Metaframe farm.  What OS and the how often you reboot. =
=3D20
>=3D3D
IF
>you stagger the reboots in different parts of the farm, etc.
>
>I've a client who absolutely refuses to schedule reboots on the farm, =
=3D
=3D3D
They
>have Windows 2000 farm and firmly believe that Windows 2000 does NOT
require
>reboots.  I believe that part of the problem is that they do not =
want=3D20
>unattended reboots, as they are afraid servers will not come back up.
Seems
>kinda funky to me, but I wanted to get a feel for what the rest of =
the=3D20
>communicty is doing.
>
>Thanks
>
>Spencer
>
>


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