[THIN] Re: No Pagefile for TS?
- From: Barry Flanagan <barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:44:34 -0800 (PST)
A software ram disk for NT,2000,XP and 203 exist today. I have seen
it set up on a MetaFrame server. The performance was amazing. Check
it out at www.superspeed.com.
In my experience, disk is a very common (and overlooked) bottleneck.
A ram disk (or solid state drive) could help a great deal to overcome
this problem.
--- Ron Oglesby <roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> God I love these conversations...
>
> TiGi is still a great Idea. As for a ram disk (in the classical dos
> sense) I
> don't know if you could do it, since the ram disk is volatile and
> the system
> might not setup the pagefile right or have problems on a reboot.
> BUT a cool
> idea.
>
> Maybe we should bounce some of these ideas off the windows server
> group in
> Seattle when we head out... Another note on the list.
>
> Ron
>
> Ron Oglesby
> Senior Technical Architect
> Microsoft MVP - Windows Server
>
> RapidApp, Chicago
> Mobile 815 325-7618
> Office 312 372-7188
> e-mail roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf
> Of Brian Madden
> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 5:08 PM
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [THIN] Re: No Pagefile for TS?
>
> Yeah, I think we've talked about this before...
>
> The problem is that this would come out of the 2GB kernel space, so
> you'd probably end up doing more harm than good.
>
> The thing to keep in mind is that this whole "no page file" thing
> is
> something that would only affect a beefy system, and I would think
> we
> wouldn't want to choke the kernel memory at all.
>
> But, good point about TiGi, cause they basically offer this without
> the
> memory hit.
>
> Brian
>
> Brian Madden
> brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> +1.202.302.3657
> Visit www.brianmadden.com for in-depth Citrix, Terminal Server, and
> server-based computing news and analysis, white papers,
> downloadable
> videos, and product reviews.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Steve Greenberg
> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 3:47 PM
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [THIN] Re: No Pagefile for TS?
>
>
> What about combining the idea of extra RAM and no swapfile by
> creating =
> =3D
> some
> sort of RAMDISK and assigning the pagefile to it? Wouldn't this
> give you
> =3D
> a
> performance gain while also "feeling right" since we are all =3D
> uncomfortable
> with eliminating the pagefile since we know that Windows uses it
> even =
> =3D
> when
> it is not strictly required.
>
> I guess this also leading the idea of a solid state drive, i.e.
> TIGI, =
> =3D
> for
> pagefile....
>
>
> Steve Greenberg
> Thin Client Computing
> 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
> Scottsdale, AZ 85262
> (602) 432-8649
> (602) 296-0411 fax=3D20
> steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On =
> =3D
> Behalf
> Of Ron Oglesby
> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 10:44 AM
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [THIN] Re: No Pagefile for TS?
>
>
> All true 9again this is just an exercise in "is it possible? And if
> so
> beneficial?"
>
> I mean if a server has a severe memory leak ot process that is
> eating =
> =3D
> memory
> then eventually (4 Gb or 12) you will run out of working set/memory
> =3D
> anyway.
> So if you have a stable system and this an exception (an odd
> occurrence
> =3D
> or
> as Tim says something going wacky)and normally run WELL below your
> =3D
> amount of
> physical RAM it would be possible to run without a page file and
> see =3D
> some
> type of performance benefit. (again another "tweak")
>
> I mean many of us have spent HOURS if not days trying small little
> =3D
> tweaks to
> get a tiny bit more performance, Since all of this little tweaks
> are
> cumulative. What if something like this could give you a 1-2%
> boost =3D
> with
> very little risk.
>
> I understand what Tim says (how it doesn't feel right) since
> Windows has
> always relied heavily on the pagefile even when not needing it. But
> we =
> =3D
> are
> working in a brave world here and I think I just might have to
> pilot =3D
> this
> change to see what's what. =3D20
>
> Ron Oglesby
> Senior Technical Architect
> Microsoft MVP - Windows Server
> =3D20
> RapidApp, Chicago
> Mobile 815 325-7618
> Office 312 372-7188
> e-mail roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> =3D20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On =
> =3D
> Behalf
> Of Bernd Harzog
> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 7:34 AM
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [THIN] Re: No Pagefile for TS?
>
> I have to agree with Tim. There are basically two reasons that the
> page
> =3D
> =3D3D
> file gets used heavily in TS environments. One is that applications
> =
> =3D3D
> components get swapped to it (this is the problem that one of the
> =3D3D
> optimizations in TScale addresses), and the second is that the OS
> makes
> =3D
> =3D3D
> sure that there is always enough working set available by
> "trimming" =
> =3D3D
> =3D
> pages
> in memory that have not been used recently.
>
> If you run without a page file, you will still benefit from TScale
> =3D3D =
> =3D
> because
> you will have cut your total VM available from lets say 12 GB (4
> =3D3D =
> GB
>
=== message truncated ===
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