[THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks
- From: "Tony Lyne (Computerland)" <Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 10:39:55 +1200
We use Altiris here. In fact Im preparing for a presentation of it to =
some clients while Im typing.=20
Integrating it with AD can achieve the same results as Zen.
Some of my co-workers are Zen CNE's and work with Zen almost every day =
and are totally blown away with what can be done with Altiris and how =
easy it is to setup.
Ill give you an example. They've just finished a large Zen integration =
project for a client. It took 3 consultants/engineers to get it working =
properly over a few days with more support from Novell as there was some =
more bugs found with it.=20
Where Ive just finished the M$ equivalent with Altiris and it took 1 day =
and worked first shot. The client was so impressed that he has purchased =
more server licenses of Altiris.
I think this speaks for its self.
Tony Lyne
Senior Systems Engineer=20
Computerland Central=20
P O Box 1470=20
PALMERSTON NORTH
Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =
information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =
dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me =
immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Thank =
you.
=A0
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Lynch [mailto:lynch00@xxxxxxx]=20
Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 10:17 a.m.
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks
=3D20
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Correct. But, according to him, the reason for the move is because
the Desktop team is going to use ZenWorks to push out software. My
counter to that was either SMS (the next version looks very sweat),
Marimba, Intel LANDesk, or Altiris. If they happen to use Symantec
Ghost for desktop deployment, then I believe the current version can
push out applications from the GhostCast server.
Chris
- -----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Tony Lyne (Computerland)
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 2:07 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks
On top of that why bother paying for maintenance on 2 different =3D3D
platforms. When one (namely M$) will do the job.
Tony Lyne
Senior Systems Engineer=3D3D20
Computerland Central=3D3D20
P O Box 1470=3D3D20
PALMERSTON NORTH
Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =3D3D
information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are
=3D3D not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =3D3D
dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =3D3D
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify
me =3D3D immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail.
Thank =3D3D you. =3D3DA0
- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Lynch [mailto:lynch00@xxxxxxx]=3D3D20
Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 10:04 a.m.
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks
=3D3D3D20
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Exactly. Well put. And I completely agree with everything you have =3D
stated here.
Chris
- - -----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D
Behalf Of Tony Lyne (Computerland)
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 1:49 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks
The idea of Zen is good but in practice it simply doesn't stack up. As =
=3D
=3D3D3D3D mentioned in a previous email we have done projects with pure =
=3D
Zen and =3D3D3D3D NDS no NT domains on large govt bodies and it has been =
=3D
frustrating.
Were finding that a large number of our clients are looking at dropping =
=3D
=3D3D3D3D Netware and Zen, and looking at going to Win2k/ad as it all =
=3D
integrates =3D3D3D3D much better and costs less to maintain.
On top of that I haven't found any of our clients who are satisfied with =
=3D
=3D3D3D3D the support that Novell offer. It is to say at best =
Pathetic!!!
Everything that Zen offers can be achieved with tools and add-ons like =
=3D
=3D3D3D3D AD and Altiris at a fraction of the overhead.
Tony Lyne
Senior Systems Engineer=3D3D3D3D20
Computerland Central=3D3D3D3D20
P O Box 1470=3D3D3D3D20
PALMERSTON NORTH
Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =3D3D3D3D =
=3D
information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
=3D
=3D3D3D3D not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =3D
=3D3D3D3D dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data =
=3D
is =3D3D3D3D prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, =
please =3D
notify me =3D3D3D3D immediately and delete all material pertaining to =
this =3D
e-mail. Thank =3D3D3D3D you. =3D3D3D3DA0
- - -----Original Message-----
From: Moby [mailto:moby@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D3D20
Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 5:36 a.m.
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks
We manage and run an extensive AD, NT domain, eDirectory, and 100K+ =3D
=3D3D3D3D3D desktop nodes with a large presence of Citrix servers thrown =
=3D
=3D3D in.=3D3D3D20 We are running =3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D ZfD on the =
Citrix boxes =3D
and it has been a =3D3D God send. Our application guys =3D3D3D3D =
=3D3D3D3D3D =3D
pretty much only need to =3D3D package =3D3D3D an application once, and =
we =3D
can use it on =3D3D3D3D3D desktops and Citrix servers.
Managing Windows and NetWare boxes, I can tell you it costs us a lot =3D
=3D3D3D3D3D less to manage the NetWare (5.1 or higher) boxes than =3D3D =
=3D
Windows.=3D3D3D20 Most of our NW management is done via web browsers =
while =3D
Windows management requires various MMC snapins and assorted tools.
Novell environments can be managed pretty effectively via =3D
VBScript.=3D3D3D20 =3D3D3D3D3D Take a look at =
http://developer.novell.com =3D
and look for Novell controls for ActiveX. Plenty of examples, plus =3D
various ASP scripts that demonstrate customized NDS management via web =
=3D
browsers (although Novell provided web based management tools provide =
=3D
almost all administrative functionality, sometimes you want to "cook =3D
your own" to customize for your =3D3D3D3D3D environment).
Also I think Novell's ZfD won the Comdex awards for best desktop =3D
=3D3D3D3D3D management tools last year. Also take a peak at Zfd 4, =
which =3D
can do everything =3D3D3D3D3D that Zfd 3 does and more without requiring =
=3D
the Novell client and it can do it over HTTP(S).
- - --Moby
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary =3D
=3D3D3D3D3D safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin =3D
Franklin
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a =
=3D
Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I =
=3D
was =3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D not a Communist. Then they came for the =3D3D =
trade =3D
unionists and I did not speak out because I =3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D was =
not a =3D
=3D3D trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to =
=3D
speak out for me.
- - -- Pastor Martin Niem=3D3D3D3D3DF6ller=3D3D3D3D3D20
- - -----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D
=3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D Behalf Of Chris Lynch
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 11:15
To: 'Charlie Fraser'
Cc: TheThin. net
Subject: [THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks
=3D3D3D3D3D20
- - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
If your desktop group wants a good application to push out software, =3D
=3D3D3D then look at Intel LanDesk 6.2. There are other apps out there =
=3D
that =3D3D3D work ALOT better than ZenWorks (Zen it is not). I know =
that =3D
there is =3D3D =3D3D3D Marimba, and someone made a mention of another =
=3D
application that will =3D3D3D push out software (I believe the topic was =
=3D
pushing software to MetaFrame =3D3D =3D3D3D servers). =3D3D3D3D3D20 =
Hell, try =3D
to manage a Novell box, and it's harder to =3D3D =3D3D3D manage than a =
=3D
Windows 2000/2003 server. Also, try to effectively manage =3D3D =3D3D3D =
a =3D
Novell environment with WMI or VBScript. Very limited (for very good =
=3D
=3D3D =3D3D3D reasons). =3D3D3D3D3D20 Chris
- - - -----Original Message-----
From: Charlie Fraser [mailto:fraserc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D3D3D20
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 8:25 PM
To: lynch00@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks
Chris, Thanks for your interest! My boss hit me with this today. Our =3D
=3D3D3D desktop management is moving to ZenWorks. My boss feels that if =
we =3D
can =3D3D =3D3D3D get rid of AD the 2K servers will be easier to manage. =
=3D
Also a Netware =3D3D =3D3D3D saleman got management hot on the idea. I =
=3D
already explained that this =3D3D =3D3D3D will mean a total =
re-engineering =3D
of how Citrix is deployed. My boss =3D3D3D wants hard proof =3D
though.=3D3D3D3D3D20
Charlie
Chris Lynch wrote:
=3D3D3D3D3D20
- - - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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I don't know where you can get horror stories, I just know from =3D3D3D =
=3D
experience, and other case studies. There are case studies on =3D3D3D =
=3D
Microsoft's site and NetIQ's site. Both are well done.
You need to explain that if you want to go to NDS, you will still have =
=3D
=3D3D =3D3D3D to have an NT domain. Period. You will find that you =
will =3D
run into =3D3D3D issues if you don't. That is, if your FP servers and =
=3D
other servers that =3D3D =3D3D3D are going to contain data are not =
Novell =3D
servers. If they are going to =3D3D =3D3D3D be Windows NT/2000 based, =
you =3D
will have an extreme administrative =3D3D3D overhead. Managing multiple =
=3D
user accounts.
Can I ask why management is considering going to NDS and NOT AD? I feel =
=3D
=3D3D =3D3D3D that I could better help you if I knew that.
Chris
- - - - -----Original Message-----
From: Charlie Fraser [mailto:fraserc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D3D3D20
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 4:23 PM
To: lynch00@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks
Chris, Management is considering it. We aren't having problems =3D3D3D =
=3D
persay.=3D3D3D3D3D20 We currently have LDAP, NDS and AD. They want to =
look =3D
=3D3D at =3D3D3D getting rid of=3D3D3D3D3D20 AD all together for ease of =
use =3D
and =3D3D consolidation. =3D3D3D I am gathering=3D3D3D3D3D20 preliminary =
data. =3D
I agree that in an existing =3D3D =3D3D3D enviroment a change =3D3D3D3D =
=3D
at=3D3D3D3D3D20 this point will be very costly in =3D3D =3D3D3D time, =
=3D
consulting and learning curve. I=3D3D3D3D3D20 have to prove it now. =
=3D3D =3D
Any =3D3D3D idea where I can get case studies. horror=3D3D3D3D3D20 =3D
stories???????
Charlie
Chris Lynch wrote:
=3D3D3D3D3D20
=3D3D3D3D3D3D20
- - - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Why are you getting rid of AD? What problems are you having? I =
=3D3D3D3D =3D
=3D3D =3D3D3D would=3D3D3D3D3D20 =3D3D3D3D3D3D never recommend ANYONE =
going to =3D
NDS over AD.
Chris
- - - - -----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D
=3D3D =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D3D20 Behalf Of =
Charlie =3D
Fraser
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 3:02 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] NDS and Zenworks
We are considering getting rid of Active Directory in favor of =3D3D3D =
=3D
NDS=3D3D3D3D3D20 and=3D3D3D3D3D3D20 use ZenWorks to manage our Citrix =
=3D
server. =3D3D Does =3D3D3D anyone run =3D3D3D3D NDS=3D3D3D3D3D20 and =3D
or=3D3D3D3D3D3D20 Zenworks now? How much =3D3D of a =3D3D3D pain is it =
going =3D
to be to=3D3D3D3D3D20 transition 6=3D3D3D3D3D3D20 servers and =3D3D =
about =3D
=3D3D3D 200 users? Thoughts? Opinions?
Charlie
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