[THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks

  • From: "Chris Lynch" <lynch00@xxxxxxx>
  • To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:04:19 -0800

=20
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Exactly.  Well put.  And I completely agree with everything you have
stated here.

Chris

- -----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Tony Lyne (Computerland)
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 1:49 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks



The idea of Zen is good but in practice it simply doesn't stack up.
As =3D mentioned in a previous email we have done projects with pure
Zen and =3D NDS no NT domains on large govt bodies and it has been
frustrating.

Were finding that a large number of our clients are looking at
dropping =3D Netware and Zen, and looking at going to Win2k/ad as it
all integrates =3D much better and costs less to maintain.

On top of that I haven't found any of our clients who are satisfied
with =3D the support that Novell offer. It is to say at best
Pathetic!!!

Everything that Zen offers can be achieved with tools and add-ons
like =3D AD and Altiris at a fraction of the overhead.

Tony Lyne
Senior Systems Engineer=3D20
Computerland Central=3D20
P O Box 1470=3D20
PALMERSTON NORTH
Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =3D
information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are
=3D not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =3D
dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =3D
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify
me =3D immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail.
Thank =3D you. =3DA0


- -----Original Message-----
From: Moby [mailto:moby@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20
Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 5:36 a.m.
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks


We manage and run an extensive AD, NT domain, eDirectory, and 100K+
=3D3D desktop nodes with a large presence of Citrix servers thrown in.=20
We are running =3D =3D3D ZfD on the Citrix boxes and it has been a God
send.  Our application guys =3D =3D3D pretty much only need to package =
an
application once, and we can use it on =3D3D desktops and Citrix
servers.

Managing Windows and NetWare boxes, I can tell you it costs us a lot
=3D3D less to manage the NetWare (5.1 or higher) boxes than Windows.=20
Most of our NW management is done via web browsers while Windows
management requires various MMC snapins and assorted tools.

Novell environments can be managed pretty effectively via VBScript.=20
=3D3D Take a look at http://developer.novell.com and look for Novell
controls for ActiveX.  Plenty of examples, plus various ASP scripts
that demonstrate customized NDS management via web browsers (although
Novell provided web based management tools provide almost all
administrative functionality, sometimes you want to "cook your own"
to customize for your =3D3D environment).

Also I think Novell's ZfD won the Comdex awards for best desktop =3D3D
management tools last year.  Also take a peak at Zfd 4, which can do
everything =3D3D that Zfd 3 does and more without requiring the Novell
client and it can do it over HTTP(S).

- --Moby

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
=3D3D safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.  -- Benjamin Franklin

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was
not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out
because I was =3D =3D3D not a Communist. Then they came for the trade
unionists and I did not speak out because I =3D =3D3D was not a trade
unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak
out for me.

- --  Pastor Martin Niem=3D3DF6ller=3D3D20

- -----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
=3D =3D3D Behalf Of Chris Lynch
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 11:15
To: 'Charlie Fraser'
Cc: TheThin. net
Subject: [THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks


=3D3D20
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If your desktop group wants a good application to push out software, =
then look at Intel LanDesk 6.2.  There are other apps out there that =
work ALOT better than ZenWorks (Zen it is not).  I know that there is =
Marimba, and someone made a mention of another application that will =
push out software (I believe the topic was pushing software to MetaFrame =
servers). =3D3D20 Hell, try to manage a Novell box, and it's harder to =
manage than a Windows 2000/2003 server.  Also, try to effectively manage =
a Novell environment with WMI or VBScript.  Very limited (for very good =
reasons). =3D3D20 Chris

- - -----Original Message-----
From: Charlie Fraser [mailto:fraserc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D20
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 8:25 PM
To: lynch00@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks


Chris, Thanks for your interest! My boss hit me with this today. Our =
desktop management is moving to ZenWorks. My boss feels that if we can =
get rid of AD the 2K servers will be easier to manage. Also a Netware =
saleman got management hot on the idea. I already explained that this =
will mean a total re-engineering of how Citrix is deployed. My boss =
wants hard proof though.=3D3D20

Charlie

Chris Lynch wrote:


=3D3D20
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I don't know where you can get horror stories, I just know from =
experience, and other case studies.  There are case studies on =
Microsoft's site and NetIQ's site.  Both are well done.

You need to explain that if you want to go to NDS, you will still have =
to have an NT domain.  Period.  You will find that you will run into =
issues if you don't.  That is, if your FP servers and other servers that =
are going to contain data are not Novell servers.  If they are going to =
be Windows NT/2000 based, you will have an extreme administrative =
overhead.  Managing multiple user accounts.

Can I ask why management is considering going to NDS and NOT AD?  I feel =
that I could better help you if I knew that.

Chris

- - - -----Original Message-----
From: Charlie Fraser [mailto:fraserc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D20
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 4:23 PM
To: lynch00@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks


Chris, Management is considering it. We aren't having problems =
persay.=3D3D20 We currently have LDAP, NDS and AD. They want to look at =
getting rid of=3D3D20 AD all together for ease of use and consolidation. =
I am gathering=3D3D20 preliminary data. I agree that in an existing =
enviroment a change =3D at=3D3D20 this point will be very costly in =
time, consulting and learning curve. I=3D3D20 have to prove it now. Any =
idea where I can get case studies. horror=3D3D20 stories???????

Charlie

Chris Lynch wrote:

 =3D3D20

=3D3D3D20
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Why are you getting rid of AD?  What problems are you having?  I =3D =
would=3D3D20 =3D3D3D never recommend ANYONE going to NDS over AD.

Chris

- - - -----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D =3D3D =3D3D3D=3D3D20 Behalf Of Charlie Fraser
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 3:02 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] NDS and Zenworks



We are considering getting rid of Active Directory in favor of =
NDS=3D3D20 and=3D3D3D20 use ZenWorks to manage our Citrix server. Does =
anyone run =3D NDS=3D3D20 and or=3D3D3D20 Zenworks now? How much of a =
pain is it going to be to=3D3D20 transition 6=3D3D3D20 servers and about =
200 users? Thoughts? Opinions?

Charlie

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