[THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks
- From: "Tony Lyne (Computerland)" <Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 09:49:02 +1200
The idea of Zen is good but in practice it simply doesn't stack up. As =
mentioned in a previous email we have done projects with pure Zen and =
NDS no NT domains on large govt bodies and it has been frustrating.
Were finding that a large number of our clients are looking at dropping =
Netware and Zen, and looking at going to Win2k/ad as it all integrates =
much better and costs less to maintain.
On top of that I haven't found any of our clients who are satisfied with =
the support that Novell offer. It is to say at best Pathetic!!!
Everything that Zen offers can be achieved with tools and add-ons like =
AD and Altiris at a fraction of the overhead.
Tony Lyne
Senior Systems Engineer=20
Computerland Central=20
P O Box 1470=20
PALMERSTON NORTH
Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =
information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
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=A0
-----Original Message-----
From: Moby [mailto:moby@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 5:36 a.m.
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks
We manage and run an extensive AD, NT domain, eDirectory, and 100K+ =3D
desktop
nodes with a large presence of Citrix servers thrown in. We are running =
=3D
ZfD
on the Citrix boxes and it has been a God send. Our application guys =
=3D
pretty
much only need to package an application once, and we can use it on =3D
desktops
and Citrix servers.
Managing Windows and NetWare boxes, I can tell you it costs us a lot =3D
less to
manage the NetWare (5.1 or higher) boxes than Windows. Most of our NW
management is done via web browsers while Windows management requires
various MMC snapins and assorted tools.
Novell environments can be managed pretty effectively via VBScript. =3D
Take a
look at http://developer.novell.com and look for Novell controls for
ActiveX. Plenty of examples, plus various ASP scripts that demonstrate
customized NDS management via web browsers (although Novell provided web
based management tools provide almost all administrative functionality,
sometimes you want to "cook your own" to customize for your =3D
environment).
Also I think Novell's ZfD won the Comdex awards for best desktop =3D
management
tools last year. Also take a peak at Zfd 4, which can do everything =3D
that
Zfd 3 does and more without requiring the Novell client and it can do it
over HTTP(S).
--Moby
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary =3D
safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a
Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was =
=3D
not
a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I =
=3D
was
not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.
-- Pastor Martin Niem=3DF6ller=3D20
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D
Behalf
Of Chris Lynch
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 11:15
To: 'Charlie Fraser'
Cc: TheThin. net
Subject: [THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks
=3D20
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
If your desktop group wants a good application to push out software,
then look at Intel LanDesk 6.2. There are other apps out there that
work ALOT better than ZenWorks (Zen it is not). I know that there is
Marimba, and someone made a mention of another application that will
push out software (I believe the topic was pushing software to
MetaFrame servers).
=3D20
Hell, try to manage a Novell box, and it's harder to manage than a
Windows 2000/2003 server. Also, try to effectively manage a Novell
environment with WMI or VBScript. Very limited (for very good
reasons).
=3D20
Chris
- -----Original Message-----
From: Charlie Fraser [mailto:fraserc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 8:25 PM
To: lynch00@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks
Chris, Thanks for your interest! My boss hit me with this today. Our
desktop management is moving to ZenWorks. My boss feels that if we
can get rid of AD the 2K servers will be easier to manage. Also a
Netware saleman got management hot on the idea. I already explained
that this will mean a total re-engineering of how Citrix is deployed.
My boss wants hard proof though.=3D20
Charlie
Chris Lynch wrote:
=3D20
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
I don't know where you can get horror stories, I just know from
experience, and other case studies. There are case studies on
Microsoft's site and NetIQ's site. Both are well done.
You need to explain that if you want to go to NDS, you will still
have to have an NT domain. Period. You will find that you will run
into issues if you don't. That is, if your FP servers and other
servers that are going to contain data are not Novell servers. If
they are going to be Windows NT/2000 based, you will have an extreme
administrative overhead. Managing multiple user accounts.
Can I ask why management is considering going to NDS and NOT AD? I
feel that I could better help you if I knew that.
Chris
- - -----Original Message-----
From: Charlie Fraser [mailto:fraserc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 4:23 PM
To: lynch00@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [THIN] Re: NDS and Zenworks
Chris, Management is considering it. We aren't having problems
persay.=3D20
We currently have LDAP, NDS and AD. They want to look at getting rid
of=3D20
AD all together for ease of use and consolidation. I am gathering=3D20
preliminary data. I agree that in an existing enviroment a change =
at=3D20
this point will be very costly in time, consulting and learning
curve. I=3D20
have to prove it now. Any idea where I can get case studies. horror=3D20
stories???????
Charlie
Chris Lynch wrote:
=3D20
=3D3D20
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Why are you getting rid of AD? What problems are you having? I =
would=3D20
=3D3D never recommend ANYONE going to NDS over AD.
Chris
- - -----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D
=3D3D=3D20
Behalf Of Charlie Fraser
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 3:02 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] NDS and Zenworks
We are considering getting rid of Active Directory in favor of NDS=3D20
and=3D3D20 use ZenWorks to manage our Citrix server. Does anyone run =
NDS=3D20
and or=3D3D20 Zenworks now? How much of a pain is it going to be to=3D20
transition 6=3D3D20 servers and about 200 users? Thoughts? Opinions?
Charlie
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