Several years. Started with Winframe in about '97. I have been involved in conversations with peers over the years that go along the same lines as what you are doing, but I've always resisted, and not allowed the teams I've been involved with to go down that path. Obviously in Australia we don't get the farm size of the rest of the world, but we still aim to have a fully automated server build from bare metal all the way through to production, with little if any manual steps in the process. I don't pretend to be an expert, otherwise I wouldn't bother to use this list. I recently completed the CCIA courses and all the exams that go with it. I learnt heaps. But what it did teach me is that the methodology we use to deploy and implement servers is second to none. Sure we have a problem with an app every now and then, but when you understand what to look for and how the technology works you will always work it out. The problem now days is that people don't have enough confidence in their own abilities, the abilities of their team, or the software itself. Times change and people need to move out of their comfort zone and try something different. I better stop now. :) Cheers, Jeremy. "Steve Greenberg" <steveg@thinclien t.net> To Sent by: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> thin-bounce@freel cc ists.org Subject [THIN] Re: Install Order 22/12/2004 10:56 AM Please respond to thin How much actual field experience do you have? Steve Greenberg Thin Client Computing 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453 Scottsdale, AZ 85262 (602) 432-8649 (602) 296-0411 fax steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeremy Saunders Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 5:34 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Install Order Steve, Aren't you then introducing two test plans? One pre Citrix installation and the other post Citrix installation. As you said, you test all your apps before you install Citrix. Surely you would then test them all after installing Citrix because the server states have changed. So how does this work for a Pilot rollout? I believe that you should be more trusting of a product that has matured very well over the years. You should also be confident in your own skills (and the skills of your team) to fault find any issues. If you do the Citrix Core Technologies and Architecture course (CTX-6100), you'll understand how Citrix technology fits in with the elements of Terminal Services, such as the kernel, drivers, etc. I'm not having a go at you, nor do I mean to be disrespectful, I just think your theory is outdated. But if that works for you and provides you with a method of deploying successful Citrix solutions, then don't let me talk you out of that comfort zone. Cheers, Jeremy. "Steve Greenberg" <steveg@thinclien t.net> To Sent by: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> thin-bounce@freel cc ists.org Subject [THIN] Re: Install Order 22/12/2004 05:49 AM Please respond to thin This is a lot more than theory, this has been done on many, many servers in the field! Your point about drive re-mapping is a good one, you should install Metaframe first if you plan to re-map, it certainly will break apps if you try to do it later.... Steve Greenberg Thin Client Computing 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453 Scottsdale, AZ 85262 (602) 432-8649 (602) 296-0411 fax steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeremy Saunders Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 2:26 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Install Order Good in theory, but not practical for a standard install method. What if you are remapping the drives? This should be done before you install the apps, so that you can test for application compatility, etc. Citrix do not interfere with the RDP protocol, so you can still test things using RDP to eliminate Citrix as an issue at a later date. Kind regards, Jeremy Jeremy Saunders Senior Systems Engineer ”ITS - passionate about winning” IBM Logicalis (Integrated Technology Services) Level 2, 1060 Hay Street West Perth, WA 6005, AUSTRALIA Visit us at http://www.ibm.com/services/au/its Phone: 132 426 Fax: ; 08 9261 8536 Mobile: TBA E-mail: jeremy.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxx "Steve Greenberg" <steveg@thinclien t.net> To Sent by: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> thin-bounce@freel cc ists.org Subject [THIN] Re: Install Order 22/12/2004 02:10 AM Please respond to thin There doesn't seem to be an absolute best practise here, but we tend nowadays to install all the apps and do initial testing with RDP, then install Metaframe after. This way you can eliminate any issues possibly introduced by Metaframe (pretty rare though). Also, this way you can capture an image which can be deployed later by adding it to the domain and installing Metaframe via script. We like this better because it is cleaner to install Metaframe anew on each server and join the farm "fresh". Regards, Steve Greenberg Thin Client Computing 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453 Scottsdale, AZ 85262 (602) 432-8649 (602) 296-0411 fax steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joanne Determann Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 6:37 AM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Install Order I asked that question too. I gathered from the responses it doesn't really matter. I installed all the app after MF and my newest 2003 MF server is cruising along just peachy. Now I'm rebuilding an older one. JD -----Original Message----- From: Greg Watts [mailto:cgwatts@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 6:57 AM To: Thin Subject: [THIN] Install Order Is it recommended to install applications before or after installing MPS 3.0? What is the best practice? TIA -- Greg Watts cgwatts@xxxxxxxxx cgwatts@xxxxxxxxxxx 410.274.3076 (cell) ******************************************************** This Weeks Sponsor SeamlessPlanet.com Domain Names Register your .com domain name for as low as $7.85 One of the lowest prices on the web! 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