[THIN] Re: Install Order
- From: Greg Reese <gareese@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 21:04:55 -0500
nope, no bad experiences myself. I just see all the problems other
people have with it and all the religious arguments that seem to come
up about it and based on that, it seems like something good to avoid
in the name of harmony and a general good aura around my servers.
Kind of like oddball printers. If I can avoid one in favor of one I
know is good, I do. why make life more difficult for the users than
it needs to be? I don't have to worry about customers. I build it and
support it myself.
Greg
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:36:33 +0800, Jeremy Saunders
<jeremy.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> You see that's my point Greg. Because of bad experiences in the past you
> take the stance that you don't remap drives. But did you actually ever
> narrow the problem down and conclude that it was an issue with the drive
> remap util? If it was, did you chat to Citrix about it and has Citrix
> addressed your issues in newer releases? By saying that you don't remap
> drives, you are forcing a decision upon your customers. Sure, it really
> only effects that that use Client Drive Mappings, but isn't that being
> negative?
>
> If I had to contact an application developer, I would never start off by
> telling them it's on a Citrix server. Just tell them Terminal Server, and
> do all your initial testing with RDP. They may of had bad experiences in
> the past, or dealt with an Integrator that didn't do justice to the Citrix
> product, and therefore there immediate reaction is "we don't support
> that!". They also may not understand the technology.
>
> Steve, the design and installation will certainly change, but the
> methodology should always remain the same...perhaps only changing with new
> product features. As Citrix say...following a tried and tested methodology
> will ensure a successful implementation time and time again.
>
> Issues discussed in this thread comes down to understanding how to deal
> with application integration, assessment, compatibility, installation,
> configuration, and even load managed groups.
>
> Please understand that this is not an argument, just a healthy discussion
> between people with different views. And these views have been formed from
> past experiences. There is nothing wrong with that. All I'm saying is that
> the Citrix MetaFrame product(s) have matured very well over the years. I
> find it such an exciting product suite to work with.
>
> Anyway...we continue to digress from the original question.
>
> Greg Reese
> <gareese@xxxxxxxx
> m> To
> Sent by: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> thin-bounce@freel cc
> ists.org
> Subject
> [THIN] Re: Install Order
> 23/12/2004 01:25
> AM
>
> Please respond to
> thin
>
> It was my understanding there would be no math :^)
>
> This is why I don't remap drives. Just discussing it becomes more
> pain than it is worth. You guys are killing me.
>
> I install Citrix last so I avoid having a problem with an app and the
> developer coming back with "Oh, you're using Citrix. ummm... We don't
> support that, it won't work" When I know it will work and just need
> to know more about it so it can be tweakd up. Sometimes an app gets
> installed after. As long as it all works in the end.
>
> Greg
>
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:29:31 +0000, Tom Howarth <tom.howarth@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > 1+1 always equaled 2 when I went to School ??????????
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:04:55 +0000 GMT, Steve Parr <sparr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > > There will always be best practises for installing, guaranteed.(Why
> else would you subscribe to a list service such as this one) Even in a less
> complicated non-TS/Cxitrix environment there are best practises you would
> want to follow. Yes some installs will require unique things that need to
> be done but on the other side of things there will always be items that
> should be followed (unless the uniqeness of the app prevents following a
> specific type of best practise)as well regardless of how unique the app may
> happen to be. To argue that is to like trying to deny 1+1 equals 1. I see
> no point.
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: "Steve Greenberg" <steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:25:42
> > > To:<thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Subject: [THIN] Re: Install Order
> > >
> > > We tailor each installation, and the precise methodology we use, to the
> > > environment we are working on. What I said in the original post is that
> > > there is no absolute best practise and that lately we are tending to
> install
> > > the apps first.
> > >
> > > What exactly is wrong with that? Isn't it obvious that this means that
> we
> > > have done it many different ways and don't have one rigid way of doing
> it?
> > >
> > > Steve Greenberg
> > > Thin Client Computing
> > > 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
> > > Scottsdale, AZ 85262
> > > (602) 432-8649
> > > (602) 296-0411 fax
> > > steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf
> > > Of RMC - Brian Hill
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 3:03 AM
> > > To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > > Subject: [THIN] Re: Install Order
> > >
> > > I have to agree.
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jeremy Saunders [mailto:jeremy.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 7:34 PM
> > > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [THIN] Re: Install Order
> > >
> > > Steve,
> > >
> > > Aren't you then introducing two test plans? One pre Citrix installation
> and
> > > the other post Citrix installation. As you said, you test all your apps
> > > before you install Citrix. Surely you would then test them all after
> > > installing Citrix because the server states have changed. So how does
> this
> > > work for a Pilot rollout?
> > >
> > > I believe that you should be more trusting of a product that has
> matured
> > > very well over the years. You should also be confident in your own
> skills
> > > (and the skills of your team) to fault find any issues.
> > >
> > > If you do the Citrix Core Technologies and Architecture course
> (CTX-6100),
> > > you'll understand how Citrix technology fits in with the elements of
> > > Terminal Services, such as the kernel, drivers, etc.
> > >
> > > I'm not having a go at you, nor do I mean to be disrespectful, I just
> think
> > > your theory is outdated. But if that works for you and provides you
> with a
> > > method of deploying successful Citrix solutions, then don't let me talk
> you
> > > out of that comfort zone.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Jeremy.
> > >
> > > "Steve Greenberg"
> > > <steveg@thinclien
> > > t.net>
> To
> > > Sent by: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > thin-bounce@freel
> cc
> > > ists.org
> > >
> Subject
> > > [THIN] Re: Install Order
> > > 22/12/2004 05:49
> > > AM
> > >
> > > Please respond to
> > > thin
> > >
> > > This is a lot more than theory, this has been done on many, many
> servers in
> > > the field!
> > >
> > > Your point about drive re-mapping is a good one, you should install
> > > Metaframe first if you plan to re-map, it certainly will break apps if
> you
> > > try to do it later....
> > >
> > > Steve Greenberg
> > > Thin Client Computing
> > > 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
> > > Scottsdale, AZ 85262
> > > (602) 432-8649
> > > (602) 296-0411 fax
> > > steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf
> > > Of Jeremy Saunders
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 2:26 PM
> > > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [THIN] Re: Install Order
> > >
> > > Good in theory, but not practical for a standard install method. What
> if you
> > > are remapping the drives? This should be done before you install the
> apps,
> > > so that you can test for application compatility, etc. Citrix do not
> > > interfere with the RDP protocol, so you can still test things using RDP
> to
> > > eliminate Citrix as an issue at a later date.
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Jeremy
> > >
> > > Jeremy Saunders
> > > Senior Systems Engineer
> > > "ITS - passionate about winning"
> > >
> > > IBM Logicalis (Integrated
> > > Technology Services)
> > > Level 2, 1060 Hay Street
> > > West Perth, WA 6005, AUSTRALIA
> > >
> > > Visit us at
> > > http://www.ibm.com/services/au/its
> > >
> > > Phone: 132 426 Fax: 08 9261 8536
> > > Mobile: TBA E-mail:
> > > jeremy.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > "Steve Greenberg"
> > > <steveg@thinclien
> > > t.net>
> To
> > > Sent by: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > thin-bounce@freel
> cc
> > > ists.org
> > >
> Subject
> > > [THIN] Re: Install Order
> > > 22/12/2004 02:10
> > > AM
> > >
> > > Please respond to
> > > thin
> > >
> > > There doesn't seem to be an absolute best practise here, but we tend
> > > nowadays to install all the apps and do initial testing with RDP, then
> > > install Metaframe after. This way you can eliminate any issues possibly
> > > introduced by Metaframe (pretty rare though). Also, this way you can
> capture
> > > an image which can be deployed later by adding it to the domain and
> > > installing Metaframe via script. We like this better because it is
> cleaner
> > > to install Metaframe anew on each server and join the farm "fresh".
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Steve Greenberg
> > > Thin Client Computing
> > > 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
> > > Scottsdale, AZ 85262
> > > (602) 432-8649
> > > (602) 296-0411 fax
> > > steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf
> > > Of Joanne Determann
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 6:37 AM
> > > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [THIN] Re: Install Order
> > >
> > > I asked that question too. I gathered from the responses it doesn't
> really
> > > matter. I installed all the app after MF and my newest 2003 MF server
> is
> > > cruising along just peachy.
> > >
> > > Now I'm rebuilding an older one. JD
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Greg Watts [mailto:cgwatts@xxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 6:57 AM
> > > To: Thin
> > > Subject: [THIN] Install Order
> > >
> > > Is it recommended to install applications before or after installing
> MPS
> > > 3.0? What is the best practice? TIA
> > >
> > > --
> > > Greg Watts
> > > cgwatts@xxxxxxxxx
> > > cgwatts@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > 410.274.3076 (cell)
> > > ********************************************************
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