Let's hope so. Treating the SBC model like Client/Server in terms of = licensing doesn't work very well. A company should not have to pay for = multiple licenses in order for 1 employee to do his/her job. One = license for the Desktop, One for home, one for the iPaq, one for the PC = up at Weekend Cabin, and don't forget the airport kiosks, the demos at = the customer's site. Joe -----Original Message----- From: Frank Monroe [mailto:Frank.Monroe@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 9:42 PM To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' Subject: [THIN] Re: I would love to deploy CSG, but..... There is some talk of some of this changing for Microsoft products. We shall see. However, even if Microsoft changes a lot of its desktop = products to per user, that really doesn't help us with the other 3rd party = products that are licensed per device. -----Original Message----- From: Roger Riggins [mailto:Roger@xxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 11:28 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: I would love to deploy CSG, but..... Here's some info on licensing obtained from http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/server/howtobuy/pricing/default.asp ***** From MS: Terminal Services is licensed on a per-device basis and is not available on a per-server or concurrent basis with the exception of the Terminal Services Internet Connector License explained below. Each device, whether it connects directly to the terminal server, or indirectly via another server, requires the appropriate licenses to be assigned to it. =3D20 Terminal Services Internet Connector Licensing The Terminal Services Internet Connector license allows a terminal server to serve up to 200 concurrent connections. This replaces the need for a Terminal Services CAL and Windows 2000 Server CAL to be assigned to a specific device. Terminal Services Internet Connector licensing may only be used for anonymous connections from non-employees. The Terminal Services Internet Connector license is currently available under the Microsoft Open, Select, and Enterprise Agreement volume licensing programs. A Windows 2000 Internet Connector license is not required for a Windows 2000 server using the Windows 2000 Terminal Services Internet Connector license. ***** From MS on Office in TS: Microsoft licenses its desktop application products on a per-computer basis. Per-computer licensing means a valid license must be obtained for each "device" (please see the device definition later in this document) that "runs" (please see the run definition later in this document) the product. The product may not be shared or used concurrently by different devices. Therefore, in a terminal server environment, you must acquire a license for all devices that will be running a Microsoft software application product (for example, Office) from the terminal server. =3D20 The term device encompasses client hardware devices, computers, workstations, terminals, or other digital electronic or analog devices that enable an end user to run Microsoft software. To "run," or "running," an application means using, accessing, displaying, running, or installing the product, regardless of the medium of access to the product. Roger Riggins, A+ MCSE CCNA CCA ACES Systems Engineer * 319-287-3102 * roger@xxxxxxxxxxxx =3D20 -----Original Message----- From: Joe Shonk [mailto:JShonk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20 Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 9:34 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: I would love to deploy CSG, but..... You are correct... I do remember it being much different tho. I =3D3D suppose, with Microsoft, if you think worse possible case that will be = =3D =3D3D the answer. When times are tuff, stick it to the customer. Dig that = =3D =3D3D knife in deep in the back and twist. Joe -----Original Message----- From: Frank Monroe [mailto:Frank.Monroe@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 6:54 PM To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' Subject: [THIN] Re: I would love to deploy CSG, but..... At this time, you need a license for each device the software is =3D3D displayed on. You will find this is the case for most software not just Microsoft products. What you have to think of is, if terminal server were not available, you would have had to install the software separately on all =3D3D of those systems. -----Original Message----- From: Joe Shonk [mailto:JShonk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 10:20 AM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: I would love to deploy CSG, but..... Remember, Office is RUN on the Metaframe server, not at Grandma's house. =3D3D =3D3D3D You'll need an Office License for each user that has access to that =3D =3D3D3D server. Joe -----Original Message----- From: Seitz, Linden [mailto:L.Seitz@xxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 7:00 AM To: Thin@Freelists. Org (E-mail) Subject: [THIN] I would love to deploy CSG, but..... I would love to deploy CSG in my environment to provide access to my Microsoft Office applications, among others, but CSG's feature of access "anytime, anywhere, anyplace" seems to conflict with Microsoft's =3D3D3D Licensing Requirements for Office applications. If I am reading it correctly, the EULA for Office states ".....you must acquire and dedicate a license for each separate COMPUTER on which the SOFTWARE PRODUCT is RUN ...." If I deploy CSG how can I be sure to remain in compliance with my Office licenses if Joe User can access Office apps from home, the library, Grandma's house, etc. Can anyone please shed some light as to how they have dealt with the =3D =3D3D3D issue of deploying access to Microsoft Office apps via Metaframe and what they have done as it relates to staying compliant with the Per Computer = =3D3D3D aspect of Microsoft's Licensing? Thanks! P.S. Man, I hate licensing! ********************************************************* This Week's Sponsor - Neoware=3D3D3D20 Now through March 31, 2003=3D3D3D20 Neoware is offering a Capio 500/Eon Proven 2100=3D3D3D20 for $299! 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