I don't mean to interrupt this conversation, but I was wondering if anyone has any expirience with FlashMX? A collegue of mine is working on a web page which will allow people to make their own types of jerseys (you know, football, etc.) She is having a problem with figuring out how to place a boarder around the name on the back of the Jersey. Ok, the web page allows you to pick color, name to be on jersey, stuff like that. She also wants the option to place a boarder around the name and the ability for the user to pick the color of that boarder as well. Any info or clues on where to get the answer would help out tons. She has been burning her candle at both ends on this one. Thank you all. Respectfully, Lucas W. Boyken Computer Systems Associates Account Manager / Technical Representative lboyken@xxxxxxxxx Company Phone: 800.222.7601 Office Phone: 515.332.2751 Fax: 515.332.5687 -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Jarrett-Norton [mailto:bjarrett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 8:18 AM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: [OT]:RE: Re: Win2k SP4 Most of the time it would be the one that they know unless, gasp, they listen to us IT people for once.. The other side is the one that they have stock in is the one they would buy. Bruce Jarrett-Norton -----Original Message----- From: Magnus [mailto:magnus@xxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 8:27 AM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: [OT]:RE: Re: Win2k SP4 If 2 products do the same thing (business wise like email) and one is more stable and secure than other which one would you buy, and for that fact which one woule management sign off on? -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Braebaum, Neil Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 4:39 AM To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' Subject: [THIN] Re: [OT]:RE: Re: Win2k SP4 This debate has raged for years and years, and will continue to with polarised zealots on either side. Each of which, normally misses the most significant point. Businesses *don't* buy software (as a generalisation) on *technical* merit. Business buy software to help them perform business. You may deride the presence of beancounters in the arena of product choice, but consider, for a second, *why* it is that business buy software. Once technical bods like ourselves, take a step back and look at the big picture, of how the use of software fits into business, rather than looking through rose-coloured spectacles at technical excellence, things will make a whole deal more sense. Meanwhile, normal service will resume, and technical forums will continue to have emotive and incessant discussions on product advocacy, and *still* completely miss the point... This has been a scheduled break in your normal viewing... as you were. Neil -----Original Message----- From: Magnus [mailto:magnus@xxxxxxxx] Sent: 02 July 2003 20:05 To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: [OT]:RE: Re: Win2k SP4 I am no way stating that linux is ready for the desktop arena, it is close but not there yet. As far as the back office server arena goes it is definetley ready and has been implemented in alot of SMB's and larger comapnies. Knowing how to use an office program really isnt the issue (although if you look a OpenOffice.org you would be surpised at how it looks and feels like Office XP/2000) You wouldnt hire a plumber to fix your car so why whould you take an accounting person and have them do IT? I understand that in small organizations that the same person my wear many hats but even with MS products you have to know what you are doingto a certain degree. Some of the bugs are very easy to fix and some are not, but more than likely you are not the only one having this issue and someone is working on it already and if not the newsgroups (just like this one) are dedicated to help you fix the issue and unlike this one it is closely monitored by the orginal developers of the software and they do (in the case aof a tougher bug) jump in and help and in most cases your issue is resolved in an hour or so vice the weeks that you may wait with MS. -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bruce Jarrett-Norton Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 2:38 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: [OT]:RE: Re: Win2k SP4 But what about the overhead that small companies / business would have to spend for either one of the accounting employees to learn / use Linux or for them to hire an IT person who knows Linux? Most people know some Windows basics already and know how most office programs work. This is not M$ being the dominator and forcing it down peoples throat but rather they have been around a relatively long time and are a known name. When you buy a M$ product yes some of your proceeds go into Marketing to get their name out. What other than word of mouth between IT people and news coverage is the Marketing of generic Linux? Also, I have not worked in Linux mind you but truly how hard is it to fix those bugs and to get a program that you want to use working on Linux? Even though they might cost less or be free as far as the software goes what is the overhead on the Technical support and the user training side? I do not know nor do I claim to be an expert in either M$ or Linux but just looking at the total picture this is what I see. I have been this discussion for years and as I stated in my first post each side will defend their side until "death". Bruce Jarrett-Norton -----Original Message----- From: Magnus [mailto:magnus@xxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 1:51 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: [OT]:RE: Re: Win2k SP4 The bugzilla report that you refer to is the Red Hat 9 which was publicly release about a month or so ago. They show bug fixes from alpha code to post release unlike other OS manaufactures do. Also if you look to see who is actually fixing most of these bugs pre public release you will notice that they have public help with it due to it beig open source, which in turn keeps the product devlopement overhead significantly lower which they pass on to the customer who buys it. -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sjolund, Dag Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 1:38 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: [OT]:RE: Re: Win2k SP4 Keeping services available are generally more likely to be design and "best practices" issues, not platform or application issues. Make sure you don't ignore the extensive bug list your "stable" linux installations may carry, though. Just because you may not know about them doesn't mean they are not there. Here is an example of what you may see from Redhat (may wrap). https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/reports.cgi?product=Red+Hat+Linux&d atasets=NEW%3A&datasets=ASSIGNED%3A&datasets=REOPENED%3A&datasets=UNCONF IRMED%3A ...at least that is down from ~38000 or so bugs documented through January 2003... https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/reports.cgi?product=Red+Hat+Linux&d atasets=CLOSED%3A Happy computing! Dag -----Original Message----- From: Magnus [mailto:magnus@xxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:10 AM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: [OT]:RE: Re: Win2k SP4 They do hack linux in order to find its flaws before it is a production release or RTM which microsoft doesnot that is the whole problem they do not do enough testing which makes there OS and server applications less stable. Some might say they do it for monetary reasons and that is understandable but if they were open source they would have alot more people testing and fixing there code for a far less monetary expense Magnus -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bruce Jarrett-Norton Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 12:57 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] [OT]:RE: Re: Win2k SP4 But look at who is using and trying to "break" the systems. Why would hackers try to hack Linux and find its flaws? I mean it is the same as saying that GroupWise is more Secure than Exchange. Exchange is more widely used that GW and thus has a larger % of people trying to break it. GW and Lotus Notes both work on MS Windows platforms. Why are these left out of the argument that Linux is better? No matter how you look at it there is not and will not be, as far as I can see, a good apples to apples comparison for Linux v. MS v. Novell. This is just the nature of the beast and each side will defend their side to the "death". Bruce Jarrett-Norton -----Original Message----- From: Magnus [mailto:magnus@xxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 12:38 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Win2k SP4 In my own experience with MS exchange and a Linux Open Source Email server (that has the same functionality as exchange ) I have had 458 days of uptime with the Linux version with no issues, bugs, security flaws(exploits, holes...etc) as with the exchange server I am patching it every 2 to 4 weeks and their are more security issues with exchange (Exchange 2000 with sp2 installed their are at least 20 security exploits and bugs with it right now according to CERT and SANS) That is why I stated that Linux is more stable. Although the hard data is from our own deployment of both Magnus -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Lucas Boyken Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 12:25 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Win2k SP4 The comment you made about Linux being more stable than Windows is subjective. Unless hard data is available, an apples to apples comparison, I cannot hold this statement to be either true or false. Windows has a larger market share and is used for more applications at this point in time than Linux. Open source, I will conceed, is a great way to work as a community to solve problems. However, the old adage that too many cooks in a kitchen only spoils the reciepe might apply in this case. Of course you are bound to see some changes in how the code works, what it can do, etc. However, with open source does come problems that you don't have in a closed environment that Microsoft enjoys. We must remain objective, that is all that I am stressing. When sweeping comments charge that one is better than the other without any hard data, that is when we get into battles of opinion instead of battles of fact. Respectfully, Lucas W. Boyken Computer Systems Associates Account Manager / Technical Representative lboyken@xxxxxxxxx Company Phone: 800.222.7601 Office Phone: 515.332.2751 Fax: 515.332.5687 -----Original Message----- From: Magnus [mailto:magnus@xxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 11:21 AM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Win2k SP4 Just food for thought If Microsoft went to Open source we would have alot less problems, That is why Linux is alot more stable than Windows would be. Also the fact that 3rd party software vendors do not adhere to OS programming standards doesnt suprise me when 30 to 45% of the time Microsoft's own programmers do not adhere to those standards. -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Lucas Boyken Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 11:50 AM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Win2k SP4 Neil, After a while, you will see that I enjoy the discussion more so than the actual position that I take in that discussion. I hope this leaves no hard feelings between us. At the end of the day, I like learning about what makes people tick, why they choose the positions they take, etc. Respectfully, Lucas W. Boyken Computer Systems Associates Account Manager / Technical Representative lboyken@xxxxxxxxx Company Phone: 800.222.7601 Office Phone: 515.332.2751 Fax: 515.332.5687 -----Original Message----- From: Braebaum, Neil [mailto:Neil.Braebaum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:45 AM To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' Subject: [THIN] Re: Win2k SP4 You do realise the irony of your perspective, now, is almost a U-turn from the one you were arguing against me, regarding Microsoft and their software quality-control? ;-) Neil -----Original Message----- From: Lucas Boyken [mailto:lboyken@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: 02 July 2003 16:35 To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Win2k SP4 Importance: High Slow down. SP4, and a majority of the service packs released, work fine with Microsoft products. Simply because you have chosen a third party piece of software, you cannot blame Microsoft for all the adverse reactions that it has to new updates. Microsoft can only control the code that they put into their products. They cannot control, to a large degree, the code that third party vendors put into their products. We have had this discussion before on this board, and it just dawned on me why I have suffered so few errors with service packs compared to many of the responses I have recieved. Could it be, and this is just a suggestion, but could it be because a majority of you are using Citrix that this is the cause of many of your headaches and not Microsoft. Let me make a point, Microsoft develops and manufactures software, and this software is the only code that they have direct control over. If a third party vendor/manufacturer decides to code a program and doesn't follow the guidelines set out in the OS's whitepapers, etc. any errors or problems should not automatically be assigned to Microsoft. We must look at the total picture and realize that there is a lot in play here. Very possibly it could be that Citrix has not be coding correctly or to the standards that Microsoft has put out. Respectfully, Lucas W. Boyken Computer Systems Associates Account Manager / Technical Representative lboyken@xxxxxxxxx Company Phone: 800.222.7601 Office Phone: 515.332.2751 Fax: 515.332.5687 -----Original Message----- From: Brian Murphy [mailto:brian_murphy@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:10 PM To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' Subject: [THIN] Re: Win2k SP4 Importance: High Gee. Sounds exactly like my issue a few posts back.... "Post SP4 Issue - Desktop Login" How hard is it to create a Service Pack that doesn't screw everything up? I could understand the first, 2nd, and maybe the 3rd SP but come on guys. This is the 4th SP. Luckily, I have not deployed this to any production systems yet but this is still ridiculous. Frank, Just curious. What type of Hardware was this deployed on and were any other updates applied other than the Service Pack during the same time frame? 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