[THIN] Re: Design Ideas?
- From: Greg Reese <gareese@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 12:56:15 -0500
meditech. figures. That is one nasty little app. Your users per XenApp
server is more affected by the amount of RAM it has. Either physically or
virtually. with all the cores and threading in modern processors, I rarely
see cpu as a problem but user sessions will tear through some RAM.
Citrix once claimed 200 users per server with XenApp on a 64 bit kit. I
don't know of anyone who ever achieved such results but even if you only get
half what they claim, your still looking at 100 users per box.
We ran HP C-Class blades, the 465C which is AMC Opteron dual cores, dual
processors (4 cores total) with 20GB of ram. We could run 75 users without
issue. That was thin clients running a published desktop, office apps, IE,
basic stuff. We found 20Gb of RAM to be the right amount, doubling the RAM
didn't double the users but it did double the cost.
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 12:36 PM, <GTaylor@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> You’re right Greg, the main reason behind looking at Xenserver is to cut
> down the footprint in the Datacenters. I’m not looking at redoing the
> entire farm right now, just this 1 application (Meditech) that is currently
> running on 28 HS21 blades. At peak times we push around 450 users in the
> app, we expect that number to rise by around 150 or more in July. The main
> goal is performance for the nurses and doctors when they’re at the bedside,
> reducing the HVAC and power requirements would be real nice also.
>
>
>
> I’ve also thought about replacing 16 of the HS21s with HS22s loaded with
> RAM, that would cut out 12 servers. I think that would give the performance
> and user density needed.
>
>
>
> *From:* thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On
> Behalf Of *Greg Reese
> *Sent:* Friday, March 26, 2010 11:01 AM
>
> *To:* thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [THIN] Re: Design Ideas?
>
>
>
> if he's getting 15 users per box over 50 servers, that's ~750 users if my
> math is right (it usually isn't, don't trust me and math).
>
>
>
> but if he can get that per user box density down to something like 50 which
> for a 64bit machine loaded with RAM is very doable, he's looking at 15
> servers. Plan for 5 guests per host, you are now down to 3 virtual hosts.
>
>
>
> From 50 servers to 3. Not too bad. Toss in an extra server or two for
> management, overhead, provisioning, and you end up at 4, maybe 5.
>
>
>
> yes I know there are specific ways for getting denser with the user counts
> and special apps have special needs. Somebody's cousin's dog walker's
> brother had more/less uers/vms' per box when they did it.
>
>
>
> I am generalizing here and making some guesses. There are few true rules
> when it comes to this stuff.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Roger Riggins <roger.riggins@xxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> Why not just leave it one box and dump all of the users into that? It’s all
> the same app, right? What are the VMs for? I’m not challenging it; I just
> don’t get it I guess.
>
>
>
> Roger
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On
> Behalf Of *Joe Shonk
> *Sent:* Friday, March 26, 2010 9:59 AM
>
>
> *To:* thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [THIN] Re: Design Ideas?
>
>
>
> Use Nehalem processors… But not 64 gigs.. 64 Gigs is an odd number for the
> Nehalem architecture. Either 48 gigs with 4 gig DIMMs or 96 gig DIMMs.
> Pick a platform that run either of those memory configs at 1333MT/s.
>
>
>
> Use Citrix Provisioning Services. Just do it. But make them Physical
> Boxes.
>
>
>
> Application virtualization will help you realize a single silo.
>
>
>
> Partition the Server, don’t over subscribe CPU or memory. So if you have a
> box with 32 logical processors (16 cores, 16 HT), then plan for 2 x 16 VMs.
> Using CPU pinning/masking may also increase your use density.
>
>
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> *From:* thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On
> Behalf Of *GTaylor@xxxxxxxx
> *Sent:* Friday, March 26, 2010 7:09 AM
> *To:* thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [THIN] Design Ideas?
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
>
>
> We currently have a farm with about 50 servers, both physical and VMWare
> VMs, all Xenapp 4.5, 32 and 64 bit. 28 of the physical servers are for a
> single application silo, running 2003R2 64-Bit running on IBM HS21 Blades,
> Dual Dual cores with 5GB. I’m looking at changing the design of this one
> application silo (user count is getting ready to go way up) and am looking
> for some ideas.
>
> The boss gave me 2 requirements, the fastest performance we can get and a
> smaller foot print. One idea we are looking at is going to big servers, IBM
> 3650s, 12 or 16 Cores with 64 Gig RAM, running Xenserver with Xenapp VMs.
> However, I worry that we’ll run into a bottleneck somewhere and not be able
> to get the number of VMs needed for the performance I want.
>
>
>
> What is folks’ opinion on Xenserver VMs verses smaller physical machines?
> We run fairly good with ~15 users per Xenapp server on the HS21s, do you
> think the VMs can perform well enough to get more users on them? Basically
> I’m looking for any ideas for better performance while being able to handle
> about a 30% user increase.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> George Taylor
>
> Systems Programmer
>
> Regional Health Inc.
>
>
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>
> Regional Health's mission is to provide and support health care excellence
> in partnership with the communities we serve.
>
> Note: The information contained in this message, including any attachments,
> may be privileged, confidential, or protected from disclosure under state or
> federal laws . If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,
> or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
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