[THIN] Re: Cursor blink rate in Windows 2003...
- From: "Sjolund, Dag" <Sjolund@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:00:43 -0700
That is a good idea. I already reluctantly went down this path on the
Application side (Oracle Forms), but there is significant effort
required to place triggers for visual appearance in each record/field
that the users can navigate. It can be done, but from an administrative
perspective, that is in my mind "going the wrong way", i.e. every
application would need further special consideration.
Anyone have any suggestions/steps for modifying the cursor
characteristics? (width, height, color, translucency)
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Greenberg [mailto:steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:29 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Cursor blink rate in Windows 2003...
Dag,=3D20
I am with on this and would like to suggest perhaps another approach- =
=3D
What if Microsoft enabled an alternate character or color? i.e. what if
you =3D could make the cursor, larger, or white, or some other
characteristic which =3D would make it visiable without blinking?
Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax=3D20
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D
Behalf Of Sjolund, Dag
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 2:05 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Cursor blink rate in Windows 2003...
Thanks for checking on this, Claudio. I am not convinced that the two
primary reasons for disabling functionality this holds water.
1) If "some" applications break when seeing -1, then shouldn't those
applications get fixed, rather than globally disabling the functionality
=3D at the platform level for all environments and applications?
2) The CPU (and bandwidth) impact of the CursorBlinkRate is miniscule =
=3D
if the blink rate is set to a moderate pace. In addition, to the =3D
scalability point, in our multi-farm Windows 2000 Terminal Services
environment we routinely have 250+ concurrent sessions per server, all
with blinking cursors.
To Joe's point earlier on the placement of the blinking cursor, it needs
=3D to be enabled on the server, as any client side implementation, such
as Citrix's SpeedScreen, becomes a hassle to configure, and judging from
SpeedScreen, functionality/presentation-wise is marginal. SpeedScreen
was/is primarily a latency countermeasure anyway, not a bandwidth =3D
reduction feature. As bandwidth and CPU usage really are non issues
with the CursorBlinkRate feature, I maintain that Server-side control of
this functionality should be enabled.
Thanks again for presenting this on behalf of the CCC (Concerned
CursorBlinkRate Community) ;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Claudio Rodrigues [mailto:crodrigues@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D20
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:40 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Cursor blink rate in Windows 2003...
Ok I talked with the developers on the TS group in Redmond last week.
Resuming their explanation: 1. Some applications go crazy when they see
=3D the -1 setting to stop the cursor blinking (as we do on Windows =
2000)
so =3D they took this out on 2003 and simply ignore the > 0 setting in a
TS session =3D and the cursor does not blink. 2. As you are aware of, =
the
cursor blinking requires timers what consume CPU cycles so there was
also a scalability factor on this decision. They are aware of the issue
and it is on their plate but I cannot say for sure if we will see a
formal fix/patch for =3D that (I think we will) and they told me they =
have
no idea on a timeframe for this.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sjolund, Dag [mailto:Sjolund@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D20
Sent: March 11, 2004 2:42 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Cursor blink rate in Windows 2003...
Brain, Claudio and Ron - In addition to all the other material you guys
contribute to the list, thanks for addressing this with the right folks.
Make sure they understand that it negatively impacts system navigation =
=3D
and functionality for people with disabilities, and that it, as a
result, =3D should not be a pure bandwidth consideration.
-----Original Message-----
From: Claudio Rodrigues =3D
[mailto:crodrigues@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D3D20
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:11 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Cursor blink rate in Windows 2003...
I will send the TS developers in Redmond an email today.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Madden [mailto:brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D3D3D20
Sent: March 10, 2004 6:42 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Cursor blink rate in Windows 2003...
Ron, Claudio, and I will all be attending the MVP Conference in Redmond
=3D in about three weeks. We'll be sure to ask the developers then.
Hopefully that's not too long of a wait!
Brian
Brian Madden
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
+1.202.302.3657
Visit www.brianmadden.com for in-depth Citrix, Terminal Server, and
server-based computing news and analysis, white papers, downloadable =3D
videos, and product reviews.
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D
Behalf Of Jeff Durbin
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:36 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Cursor blink rate in Windows 2003...
Man, that's lame. Thanks Microsoft!=3D3D3D3D3D20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D3D3D3D3D20 =3D3D3D3D
[mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>On Behalf Of Sjolund, Dag
> Sent: Wednesday, 10 March 2004 4:57 p.m.
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [THIN] Cursor blink rate in Windows 2003... =3D3D3D3D3D20=20
>=3D3D3D3D3D20 List Subscribers,
>=3D3D3D3D3D20
> In preparing for an upgrade of a Windows 2000 =
Server-based=3D3D3D3D3D20
=3D
=3D3D
=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D20
>terminal services farm to Windows 2003 Server, I have run=3D3D3D3D3D20 =
=3D
=3D3D
into=3D3D20
>=3D3D3D
an
=3D3D3D3D
>issue with the cursor blink functionality on the=3D3D3D3D3D20 Windows =
=3D
=3D3D3D
2003=3D3D3D3D20
>Server platform. After talking with Microsoft=3D3D3D3D3D20 Support, =
=3D
=3D3D3D
cursor=3D3D3D3D20
>blinking functionality is programmatically=3D3D3D3D3D20 disabled by =
=3D
design
on=3D3D3D3D20
>the Windows 2003 Server platform for=3D3D3D3D3D20 RDP sessions. This =
=3D
was
not=3D3D3D3D20
>the case on Windows 2000 and NT=3D3D3D3D3D20 4.0 based platforms. =
=3D3D3D
Microsoft's
=3D3D3D3D
>reasoning for this design=3D3D3D3D3D20 is likely anchored in the
historically=3D3D3D3D20
>well known issue of=3D3D3D3D3D20 bandwidth implications relating to a =
=3D
=3D3D3D
blinking
=3D3D3D3D
>cursor, coupled=3D3D3D3D3D20 with the desire to make RDP protocol as =
=3D3D
"thin"=3D3D20
>=3D3D3D
as
=3D3D3D3D
>possible by=3D3D3D3D3D20 default. Even though the cursor blink issue =
=3D
=3D3D3D
only=3D3D3D3D20
>had=3D3D3D3D3D20 bandwidth implications in certain environments, the =
=3D
=3D3D3D3D
global=3D3D3D3D3D20
> disabling of this "feature" has ramifications in =3D
environments=3D3D3D3D3D20=3D20
> =3D3D
=3D3D20
>where available bandwidth is a non-issue. Does anyone =
have=3D3D3D3D3D20
>=3D
=3D3D
any
>connections with the right people at Microsoft to get=3D3D3D3D3D20 =
=3D3D
something
>like this addressed? I have an active case with MS=3D3D3D3D3D20 =
Support
>=3D
=3D3D
on=3D3D20
>this issue, though it is currently in a "We=3D3D3D3D3D20 can't/won't =
=3D3D
change=3D3D20
>this functionality" stage. The support rep is trying to address=3D20=20
>the=3D3D20 issue=3D3D3D3D3D20 through proper MS Support channels, but =
I=3D20
>figured I =3D3D
would
>try=3D3D3D3D3D20 to assist him with some help from this distinguished =
=3D
=3D3D
forum.
>=3D3D3D3D3D20 The cursor blink rate issue is a big one as it =3D
relates=3D3D20=3D20
>to=3D3D3D3D3D20 window/field navigation, especially for =
visually=3D3D20=3D20
>impaired=3D3D3D3D3D20 users, and though a minor detail configuration =
=3D
wise,=3D20
>=3D3D
>is a=3D3D3D3D3D20 show stopper for the overall solution. Someone =3D
with=3D3D20=3D20
>the=3D3D3D3D3D20 right connections please respond.....please.... Did =
=3D
I=3D3D20=3D20
>say=3D3D3D3D3D20 please? I'll attach an e-mail that I sent to MS=3D20 =
>Support=3D3D20 for=3D3D3D3D3D20 those who are really interested. For =
=3D
those=3D20
>who are=3D3D20 not,=3D3D3D3D3D20 sorry for temporarily taking up ~25K =
in =3D
your=3D20
>inbox. =3D3D3D3D3D20 Dag Sjolund, MCSE, CCNA, CCA, CISSP
> Senior Systems Engineer
> Best Western International, Inc.
>=3D3D3D3D3D20 =20
>______________________________________________________________
> __________
> _
>=3D3D3D3D3D20
> [MS Support Rep],
>=3D3D3D3D3D20
> The issue that we are experiencing with the =
CursorBlinkRate=3D3D3D3D3D20
>feature on Windows 2003 Server may have adverse =3D
implications=3D3D3D3D3D20
> on proceeding further with Windows 2003 Server-based =3D
Terminal=3D3D3D3D3D20
> Services implementations in our environment. Best =
Western=3D3D3D3D3D20=20
> International, Inc., THE WORLD'S LARGEST HOTEL CHAIN(r),=3D3D3D3D3D20=20
> currently utilize a multi-server, multi-farm Windows 2000=3D3D3D3D3D20 =
> Advanced Server Terminal Services solution to provide =
call=3D3D3D3D3D20=20
> center functionality for all Central Reservation Centers worldwide.=20
> =3D3D3D3D3D3D20 Though potentially viewed as a minor detail in the=20
> overall=3D3D3D3D3D20 solution, one of the vital requirements of this=20
> solution is=3D3D3D3D3D20 for the call center agents to at all times be =
> able to=3D3D3D3D3D20 identify where in their call center applications=20
> they have=3D3D3D3D3D20 navigated. This is especially true for agents=20
> that are=3D3D3D3D3D20 visually impaired and/or have other physical=20
> challenges=3D3D3D3D3D20 relating to mouse movements and keyboard=20
> operation. With =3D
the=3D3D3D3D3D20
> Windows 2000 Server platform this was a non-issue, as the=3D3D3D3D3D20 =
> cursor blink rate was a functional and adjustable =
setting,=3D3D3D3D3D20=20
> that could be tailored to the target Terminal Services environment.=20
> =3D3D3D3D3D3D20 This brings us to the issue at hand: In Windows 2003, =
> the=3D3D3D3D3D20 cursor blink functionality has been globally disabled =
> for =3D
the=3D3D3D3D3D20
> purpose of optimizing bandwidth usage of the RDP protocol =3D
and=3D3D3D3D3D20
> Terminal Services. As one can surmise, this means that =3D
even=3D3D3D3D3D20
> in scenarios were available bandwidth is not an issue, =
this=3D3D3D3D3D20
> feature cannot be enabled. In Best Western =
International's=3D3D3D3D3D20
> Terminal Services environment, cursor blinking has by =3D
design=3D3D3D3D3D20
> been enabled since the release of Windows NT 4.0 Terminal=3D3D3D3D3D20 =
> Server Edition, and is currently enabled in the Windows =3D
2000=3D3D3D3D3D20
> Server-based implementation. The Terminal Services=3D3D3D3D3D20=20
> environment spans multiple LAN/WAN architectures, =
including=3D3D3D3D3D20
> Dial-up modem connectivity, DSL/ADSL, Frame Relay =
circuits,=3D3D3D3D3D20
> T1/T3, and 100/1000Mb LAN segments. The individual =
servers=3D3D3D3D3D20
> routinely handle 250+ concurrent Terminal Services =
sessions=3D3D3D3D3D20
> without performance issues. At no point have we =3D
experienced=3D3D3D3D3D20
> issues relating to bandwidth usage as a result of the =3D
cursor=3D3D3D3D3D20
> blink feature.
> =3D3D3D3D3D3D20
> In summary, and judging from the numerous responses =3D
received=3D3D3D3D3D20
> from posts on newsgroups and other support forums on this=3D3D3D3D3D20 =
> topic, this issue is one that impacts decisions regarding =3D
the=3D3D3D3D3D20
> feasibility of Windows 2003 as a Terminal Services solution. =3D
=3D3D3D3D3D20
> The suggested behavior for the cursor blink feature would=3D3D3D3D3D20 =
> mirror the functionality on the Windows 2000 Server =3D
platform,=3D3D3D3D3D20
> but with one small adjustment: The cursor blink feature =
is=3D3D3D3D3D20
> enabled and adjustable, but the default behavior should =
be=3D3D3D3D3D20=20
> set to "no blinking" (-1). =3D3D3D3D3D3D20
> Please investigate if would be possible to submit this =
case=3D3D3D3D3D20
> as a justification for a patch or revision of the =3D
associated=3D3D3D3D3D20
> code. Below are details of the issue experienced. Let =
me=3D3D3D3D3D20=20
> know if you have any questions or concerns. =3D3D3D3D3D3D20
> Thanks,
> =3D3D3D3D3D3D20
> Dag Sjolund, MCSE, CCNA, CCA, CISSP
> Senior Systems Engineer
> Best Western International, Inc. - THE WORLD'S LARGEST =3D
HOTEL=3D3D3D3D3D20
> CHAIN(r) =3D3D3D3D3D3D20
>=3D3D3D3D3D20
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> --------
>=3D3D3D3D3D20
> =3D3D3D3D3D3D20
> Summary of issue at hand:
>=3D3D3D3D3D20
> Platform: Windows 2003 Server Enterprise Edition with all=3D3D3D3D3D20 =
=20
>updates, upgraded in place from Windows 2000 Advanced =3D
Server=3D3D3D3D3D20
> SP3. Running native Terminal Services (RDP 5.2).
>=3D3D3D3D3D20
> Symptoms: User profiles retained the pre-upgrade=3D3D3D3D3D20 =20
>CursorBlinkRate settings, but cursor is not blinking at all. =3D
=3D3D3D3D3D20
> The users are able to change the Cursor blink rate =
setting=3D3D3D3D3D20
>Control Panel's Keyboard applet properties, but it has no=3D3D3D3D3D20 =
>actual effect on the blink rate. Cursor blinking and the=3D3D3D3D3D20 =
>functional adjustment of this value seems to be globally=3D3D3D3D3D20 =20
>disabled. There are no "override" string values in the=3D3D3D3D3D20 =20
>HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Terminal
> Server\WinStations\RDP-Tcp\UserOverride\Control Panel\Desktop key. =20
>Adding a "CursorBlinkRate" string value with a desired=3D3D3D3D3D20 =20
>millisecond value in this key has no effect. =3D3D3D3D3D20
> =3D3D3D3D3D3D20
>=3D3D3D3D3D20
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