[THIN] Re: CCIA
- From: Charlie Fraser <fraserc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 14:00:14 -0400
Tony, Where have you been? High School kids are getting certs right
now. In fact Cisco has the Cisco Academy where in 1-2 years a HS student
gets a CCNA. We have the program at our University and kids can get it
in 1 year. There are other HS programs that do the MCSE, A+, etc........
We can all agree on one thing right now the system stinks. You have your
fears and I have mine. I would hate to see industry certifications so
hard to get that good professionals will be shying away or persuing a
MBA or MS degree. We need something that is globally recognized,
Respectable, where employers would be putting pressure on their own
people to go for these certs. Attainable, in which a pro can complete it
in say 3 months and still juggle a life and 10-12 hours a day in the
office.
We will always have trouble with wannabe's. This client, was the
consultant a Citrix Authorized provider? If they weren't then shame on
the client. If they were then shame on Citrix.
HP had the right idea a couple of years ago with printer certifications.
You could take the classes and the tests but you were not certified
unless your company did $250K in annual business and sponsored you or
you were sponsored by an HP Authorized service provider. Perhaps that
may be an intermediate answer.
Perhaps, you hit the nail on the head with some sort of trade guild
which could set standards.
Charlie
Tony Lyne wrote:
>Theres a few flaws with this.
>
>Youre assuming people wont abuse this and get confused by these =
>certifications.
>
>I would hate to see a high school student (teenager) with a CCEA, with =
>only paper experience. Even when viewing the CCEA from what youre =
>suggesting would open up a whole can of worms as many would see their =
>cert as a right to play with things. Remember little knowledge is =
>dangerous in this industry when playing with production systems. =
>Especially when thousands of users are effected by one screw-up.
>
>This idea could work if it was treated like an appreticeship (motor =
>mechanic). Where they would have to work as a kind of understudy to a =
>senior level engineer. This engineer would then be responsible for their =
>training, mentoring etc.
>
>Also, most basic MCSE's could install a terminal server. But an =
>experienced, certified engineer/consultant with years of experience =
>would be able to design and implement/document and build the terminal =
>server properly and make it suit the business needs. Were dealing with =
>business tools here not a mere techy play thing. These solutions need to =
>suit business requirements.
>
>The reason why this is such a hot point for me personally. As Im =
>currently involved with a client where a contractor 'installed' their =
>Citrix farm and sure it works. But there is not one ounce of business or =
>strategic planning in its design. The client will be pissed because this =
>contractor miss-informed the client on certain things and didn't design =
>the farm to suit their business. Now this contractor is going to other =
>clients saying 'sure I can build Citrix farms'.
>
>That's my point!!
>
>Tony Lyne
>Senior Systems Engineer=20
>Computerland Central=20
>P O Box 1470=20
>PALMERSTON NORTH
>Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
>Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
>Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
>E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
>CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =
>information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
>not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =
>dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =
>prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me =
>immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Thank =
>you.
>=A0
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Charlie Fraser [mailto:fraserc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
>Sent: Saturday, 7 June 2003 3:20 a.m.
>To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
>
>I have a couple of comments and issues concerning this thread. I have=20
>been working with Citrix for over 3 years and I am taking my last CCEA=20
>test on Monday. I don't like the sneers I get with my cert mostly from=20
>people who don't believe in getting certified. I get certifications for=20
>2 reasons 1) is my boss thinks their useful and encourages me and 2)=20
>Personal and professional satisfaction.
>
>I think we need to take a step back and look at what these certs mean.=20
>To me a CCA, CCEA, MCSE, etc.... indicates a understanding of the=20
>product not expertise and it does not indicate real like experience. Now =
>
>even if you do the boot camp or the cram tools if you pass the test you=20
>still are coming away with an understanding of the product a starting=20
>point. It is what you do with the knowledge after that counts. I looked=20
>at the Experience/Certifcation site and it is good, but who will=20
>actually do it? how much will it cost? and who has that kind of time to=20
>put into it? That cert is good for someone looking for a job or a better =
>
>one. But what about the average professional who is looking for the=20
>prestige and perhaps a raise?
>
>What I think is needed (any Citrix/Microsoft people on this list take=20
>note) is an expert standing of these certifications which require=20
>measurements besides the multiple guess tests. I think if this was done=20
>more good professionals would go for these certs. I think a cert needs=20
>to be attainable and easy to complete and by easy I mean process not=20
>required knowledge or skill level. For example hypothetically an=20
>expert CCEA would require the following:
>
>1 year as a CCEA.
>1 Year managing a Citrix Environment
>Sponsorship from a reseller or Citrix sales/technical sales person.
>A written case study detailing a Citrix project your worked on.
>A proctored written exam where you have to solve real world problems.=20
>This exam would be graded much like a bar exam where 2 Expert CCEA's=20
>would score the exam. And in the event of a failure a third would review =
>
>it.
>
>This would make those of us who earned our certs feel better and still=20
>encourage newbees to try for it. I think the paper certs serve a purpose =
>
>and should be a starting point not and end all. Any employer worth their =
>
>salt know it's not just a cert but a combination of experience and cert. =
>
>That said a professional cert should not be as hard as getting an MBA=20
>because that would discourage the average professional for trying for=20
>it. Just my opinion.
>
>Charlie Fraser
>Systems Engineer
>Montclair State University
>
>Tony Lyne wrote:
>
>
>
>>For sure, we have to do the same thing.
>>
>>I would have less of a problem with the certification thing if these =
>>
>>
>=3D
>
>
>>bootcamps etc and paper certified individuals were not around.
>>
>>Tony Lyne
>>Senior Systems Engineer=3D20
>>Computerland Central=3D20
>>P O Box 1470=3D20
>>PALMERSTON NORTH
>>Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
>>Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
>>Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
>>E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
>>CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =3D
>>information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
>>
>>
>=3D
>
>
>>not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =3D
>>dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =3D
>>prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me =
>>
>>
>=3D
>
>
>>immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Thank =
>>
>>
>=3D
>
>
>>you.
>>=3DA0
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: jeff.o'connor@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =
>>
>>
>[mailto:jeff.o'connor@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20
>
>
>>Sent: Friday, 6 June 2003 3:16 p.m.
>>To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
>>
>>To maintain Platinum Citrix Partner status. Most of our Citrix =
>>
>>
>engineers =3D
>
>
>>had to complete the CCEA. There is a minimum number of CCA's and =
>>
>>
>CCEA's=3D20
>
>
>>required.
>>It could be a bit of fluff for sure, but to customers it sometimes=3D20
>>demonstrates knowledge at a certain level. Rather than the kid down =
>>
>>
>the=3D20
>
>
>>road who has installed it once or twice.
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Tony Lyne" <Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Sent by: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>06/06/2003 12:36 PM
>>Please respond to thin
>>=3D20
>> To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> cc:=3D20
>> Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
>>
>>
>>Yep, Im always being hassled by my boss to get mine sorted but time is =
>>
>>
>=3D
>
>
>>=3D3D
>>the big factor.=3D3D20
>>
>>The CCEA cert thing has become a bit like MCSE, since all of these cram =
>>
>>
>=3D
>
>
>>=3D3D
>>sites and papers came out, its appears to be loosing credibility.
>>
>>Basically you either can or cannot do the stuff, references always =
>>
>>
>speak =3D
>
>
>>=3D3D
>>more than certifications.
>>
>>Heres a thought, why doesn't the IT industry adopt a fellowship thing =
>>
>>
>=3D
>
>
>>=3D3D
>>like doctors. Get rid of these paper certified dudes and companies who =
>>
>>
>=3D
>
>
>>=3D3D
>>are making a killing from these get certified quick schemes.
>>
>>
>>Tony Lyne
>>Senior Systems Engineer=3D3D20
>>Computerland Central=3D3D20
>>P O Box 1470=3D3D20
>>PALMERSTON NORTH
>>Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
>>Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
>>Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
>>E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
>>CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =3D3D
>>information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
>>
>>
>=3D
>
>
>>=3D3D
>>not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =3D3D
>>dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =3D3D
>>prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me =
>>
>>
>=3D
>
>
>>=3D3D
>>immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Thank =
>>
>>
>=3D3D
>
>
>>you.
>>=3D3DA0
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Ron Oglesby [mailto:roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D20
>>Sent: Friday, 6 June 2003 2:24 p.m.
>>To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
>>
>>Sure. There was a big rush early (in the resller community for sure)
>>Then after about 500-600 were through it slowed down some. But there =
>>
>>
>are
>
>
>>a lot of them
>>
>>Ron Oglesby
>>Senior Technical Architect
>>=3D3D3D20
>>RapidApp
>>Office 312.372.7188
>>Mobile 815.325.7618
>>email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>=3D3D3D20
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Tony Lyne [mailto:Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D20
>>Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:24 PM
>>To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
>>
>>People actually bother doing the CCEA exams?
>>
>>Tony Lyne
>>Senior Systems Engineer=3D3D3D3D20
>>Computerland Central=3D3D3D3D20
>>P O Box 1470=3D3D3D3D20
>>PALMERSTON NORTH
>>Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
>>Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
>>Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
>>E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
>>CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =
>>
>>
>=3D3D3D3D
>
>
>>information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
>>
>>
>=3D
>
>
>>=3D3D
>>=3D3D3D
>>=3D3D3D3D
>>not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =3D3D3D3D
>>dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =3D
>>=3D3D3D3D
>>prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me
>>=3D3D3D3D
>>immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Thank =
>>
>>
>=3D3D
>
>
>>=3D3D3D3D
>>you.
>>=3D3D3D3DA0
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Ron Oglesby [mailto:roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D3D20
>>Sent: Friday, 6 June 2003 1:49 p.m.
>>To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
>>
>>The exams are not available yet (I think q3 is the date now). But I
>>doubt there will be a lot of these guys outside of resellers.
>>
>>Simple reason is that it is really like an in-depth MetaFrame Admin
>>course that gets more into the services and the =
>>
>>
>architecture.=3D3D3D3D3D20
>
>
>>Once you take the written exam (computer based obviously) and pass then
>>you will have to go to Citrix and take a hands-on much like the CCIE. =
>>
>>
>Of
>
>
>>course you have to pay for it, and travel... much more than spending a
>>Saturday morning at Silvan for 100 bucks.
>>
>>Now I THINK that resellers might be able to use some other funds for
>>this. But even if they cant most will be required to keep one of these
>>guys on staff anyway and will for up for their top Citrix guy.
>>
>>I mean when the CCEA first came out we all thought it was the biggest
>>thing in the reseller community. Hell I even took everything in beta so
>>I could get a cool "original CCEA" jacket from them for the first 50
>>guys to get the cert. But alas now it is no big deal and I don't even
>>know where the jacket is anymore.
>>
>>
>>
>>Ron Oglesby
>>Senior Technical Architect
>>=3D3D3D3D3D20
>>RapidApp
>>Office 312.372.7188
>>Mobile 815.325.7618
>>email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>=3D3D3D3D3D20
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Sergio Blum [mailto:sergio@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D3D3D20
>>Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 8:43 PM
>>To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [THIN] CCIA
>>
>>Does anyone know anything about the CCIA certification.=3D3D3D3D3D3D20
>>Have they already launched the the exam?
>>Have anyone already made it?
>>
>>
>>________________________________________=3D3D3D3D3D3D20
>>Sergio Adriano Blum - www.sisnema.com.br=3D3D3D3D3D3D20
>>MCP - MCSA - MCDBA - MCSE - CCA - CCEA
>> ByBLUM Developments
>>
>>Microsoft Certified System Engineer
>>Microsoft Certified Database Administrator
>>Citrix Certified Enterprise Administrator
>>________________________________________
>>
>>********************************************************
>>This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
>>New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense=3D3D3D3D3D20
>>designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.=3D3D3D3D3D20
>>http://www.appsense.com/
>>**********************************************************
>>Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
>>http://thethin.net/links.cfm
>>
>>For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=3D3D3D3D3D20
>>set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
>>http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
>>********************************************************
>>This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
>>New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense=3D3D3D3D20
>>designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.=3D3D3D3D20
>>http://www.appsense.com/
>>**********************************************************
>>Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
>>http://thethin.net/links.cfm
>>
>>For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=3D3D3D3D20
>>set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
>>http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
>>********************************************************
>>This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
>>New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense=3D3D3D20
>>designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.=3D3D3D20
>>http://www.appsense.com/
>>**********************************************************
>>Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
>>http://thethin.net/links.cfm
>>
>>For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=3D3D3D20
>>set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
>>http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
>>********************************************************
>>This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
>>New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense=3D3D20
>>designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.=3D3D20
>>http://www.appsense.com/
>>**********************************************************
>>Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
>>http://thethin.net/links.cfm
>>
>>For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=3D3D20
>>set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
>>http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
>>********************************************************
>>This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
>>New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense=3D20
>>designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.=3D20
>>http://www.appsense.com/
>>**********************************************************
>>Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
>>http://thethin.net/links.cfm
>>
>>For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=3D20
>>set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
>>http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
>>
>>
>>
>>********************************************************
>>This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
>>New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense=3D20
>>designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.=3D20
>>http://www.appsense.com/
>>**********************************************************
>>Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
>>http://thethin.net/links.cfm
>>
>>For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=3D20
>>set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
>>http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
>>********************************************************
>>This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
>>New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense=20
>>designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.=20
>>http://www.appsense.com/
>>**********************************************************
>>Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
>>http://thethin.net/links.cfm
>>
>>For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=20
>>set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
>>http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
>>=20
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>********************************************************
>This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
>New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense=20
>designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.=20
>http://www.appsense.com/
>**********************************************************
>Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
>http://thethin.net/links.cfm
>
>For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=20
>set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
>http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
>********************************************************
>This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
>New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense
>designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.
>http://www.appsense.com/
>**********************************************************
>Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
>http://thethin.net/links.cfm
>
>For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or
>set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
>http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
>
>
********************************************************
This weeks sponsor - Emergent Online 99Point9.com
Designed to facilitate efficient resolution of your technical server-based
questions, issues and incidents, technical support is a few mouse-clicks away:
you submit your incident-specific support requests via our online support
helpdesk, our certified engineers resolve them while you monitor the progress,
and your systems get back to 99.9% up-time in no time.
http://www.99point9.com
**********************************************************
Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
http://thethin.net/links.cfm
For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or
set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
Other related posts:
