[THIN] Re: CCIA
- From: "B" <bbeckett2000@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 17:58:32 -0400
Point noted but so what? There will always be groups of people who know
little, know a moderate amount of information and experts. It's life, it's
reality. You can be miffed because of the group who only has little bits of
knowledge but why?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Lyne" <Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 5:18 PM
Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
> Theres a few flaws with this.
>
> Youre assuming people wont abuse this and get confused by these =
> certifications.
>
> I would hate to see a high school student (teenager) with a CCEA, with =
> only paper experience. Even when viewing the CCEA from what youre =
> suggesting would open up a whole can of worms as many would see their =
> cert as a right to play with things. Remember little knowledge is =
> dangerous in this industry when playing with production systems. =
> Especially when thousands of users are effected by one screw-up.
>
> This idea could work if it was treated like an appreticeship (motor =
> mechanic). Where they would have to work as a kind of understudy to a =
> senior level engineer. This engineer would then be responsible for their =
> training, mentoring etc.
>
> Also, most basic MCSE's could install a terminal server. But an =
> experienced, certified engineer/consultant with years of experience =
> would be able to design and implement/document and build the terminal =
> server properly and make it suit the business needs. Were dealing with =
> business tools here not a mere techy play thing. These solutions need to =
> suit business requirements.
>
> The reason why this is such a hot point for me personally. As Im =
> currently involved with a client where a contractor 'installed' their =
> Citrix farm and sure it works. But there is not one ounce of business or =
> strategic planning in its design. The client will be pissed because this =
> contractor miss-informed the client on certain things and didn't design =
> the farm to suit their business. Now this contractor is going to other =
> clients saying 'sure I can build Citrix farms'.
>
> That's my point!!
>
> Tony Lyne
> Senior Systems Engineer=20
> Computerland Central=20
> P O Box 1470=20
> PALMERSTON NORTH
> Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
> Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
> Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
> E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
> CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =
> information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
> not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =
> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me =
> immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Thank =
> you.
> =A0
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charlie Fraser [mailto:fraserc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
> Sent: Saturday, 7 June 2003 3:20 a.m.
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
>
> I have a couple of comments and issues concerning this thread. I have=20
> been working with Citrix for over 3 years and I am taking my last CCEA=20
> test on Monday. I don't like the sneers I get with my cert mostly from=20
> people who don't believe in getting certified. I get certifications for=20
> 2 reasons 1) is my boss thinks their useful and encourages me and 2)=20
> Personal and professional satisfaction.
>
> I think we need to take a step back and look at what these certs mean.=20
> To me a CCA, CCEA, MCSE, etc.... indicates a understanding of the=20
> product not expertise and it does not indicate real like experience. Now =
>
> even if you do the boot camp or the cram tools if you pass the test you=20
> still are coming away with an understanding of the product a starting=20
> point. It is what you do with the knowledge after that counts. I looked=20
> at the Experience/Certifcation site and it is good, but who will=20
> actually do it? how much will it cost? and who has that kind of time to=20
> put into it? That cert is good for someone looking for a job or a better =
>
> one. But what about the average professional who is looking for the=20
> prestige and perhaps a raise?
>
> What I think is needed (any Citrix/Microsoft people on this list take=20
> note) is an expert standing of these certifications which require=20
> measurements besides the multiple guess tests. I think if this was done=20
> more good professionals would go for these certs. I think a cert needs=20
> to be attainable and easy to complete and by easy I mean process not=20
> required knowledge or skill level. For example hypothetically an=20
> expert CCEA would require the following:
>
> 1 year as a CCEA.
> 1 Year managing a Citrix Environment
> Sponsorship from a reseller or Citrix sales/technical sales person.
> A written case study detailing a Citrix project your worked on.
> A proctored written exam where you have to solve real world problems.=20
> This exam would be graded much like a bar exam where 2 Expert CCEA's=20
> would score the exam. And in the event of a failure a third would review =
>
> it.
>
> This would make those of us who earned our certs feel better and still=20
> encourage newbees to try for it. I think the paper certs serve a purpose =
>
> and should be a starting point not and end all. Any employer worth their =
>
> salt know it's not just a cert but a combination of experience and cert. =
>
> That said a professional cert should not be as hard as getting an MBA=20
> because that would discourage the average professional for trying for=20
> it. Just my opinion.
>
> Charlie Fraser
> Systems Engineer
> Montclair State University
>
> Tony Lyne wrote:
>
> >For sure, we have to do the same thing.
> >
> >I would have less of a problem with the certification thing if these =
> =3D
> >bootcamps etc and paper certified individuals were not around.
> >
> >Tony Lyne
> >Senior Systems Engineer=3D20
> >Computerland Central=3D20
> >P O Box 1470=3D20
> >PALMERSTON NORTH
> >Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
> >Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
> >Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
> >E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
> >CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =3D
> >information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
> =3D
> >not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =3D
> >dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =3D
> >prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me =
> =3D
> >immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Thank =
> =3D
> >you.
> >=3DA0
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: jeff.o'connor@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =
> [mailto:jeff.o'connor@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20
> >Sent: Friday, 6 June 2003 3:16 p.m.
> >To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
> >
> >To maintain Platinum Citrix Partner status. Most of our Citrix =
> engineers =3D
> >
> >had to complete the CCEA. There is a minimum number of CCA's and =
> CCEA's=3D20
> >required.
> >It could be a bit of fluff for sure, but to customers it sometimes=3D20
> >demonstrates knowledge at a certain level. Rather than the kid down =
> the=3D20
> >road who has installed it once or twice.
> >
> >Jeff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >"Tony Lyne" <Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Sent by: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >06/06/2003 12:36 PM
> >Please respond to thin
> >=3D20
> > To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > cc:=3D20
> > Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
> >
> >
> >Yep, Im always being hassled by my boss to get mine sorted but time is =
> =3D
> >=3D3D
> >the big factor.=3D3D20
> >
> >The CCEA cert thing has become a bit like MCSE, since all of these cram =
> =3D
> >=3D3D
> >sites and papers came out, its appears to be loosing credibility.
> >
> >Basically you either can or cannot do the stuff, references always =
> speak =3D
> >=3D3D
> >more than certifications.
> >
> >Heres a thought, why doesn't the IT industry adopt a fellowship thing =
> =3D
> >=3D3D
> >like doctors. Get rid of these paper certified dudes and companies who =
> =3D
> >=3D3D
> >are making a killing from these get certified quick schemes.
> >
> >
> >Tony Lyne
> >Senior Systems Engineer=3D3D20
> >Computerland Central=3D3D20
> >P O Box 1470=3D3D20
> >PALMERSTON NORTH
> >Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
> >Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
> >Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
> >E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
> >CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =3D3D
> >information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
> =3D
> >=3D3D
> >not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =3D3D
> >dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =3D3D
> >prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me =
> =3D
> >=3D3D
> >immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Thank =
> =3D3D
> >you.
> >=3D3DA0
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Ron Oglesby [mailto:roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D20
> >Sent: Friday, 6 June 2003 2:24 p.m.
> >To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
> >
> >Sure. There was a big rush early (in the resller community for sure)
> >Then after about 500-600 were through it slowed down some. But there =
> are
> >a lot of them
> >
> >Ron Oglesby
> >Senior Technical Architect
> >=3D3D3D20
> >RapidApp
> >Office 312.372.7188
> >Mobile 815.325.7618
> >email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >=3D3D3D20
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Tony Lyne [mailto:Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D20
> >Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:24 PM
> >To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
> >
> >People actually bother doing the CCEA exams?
> >
> >Tony Lyne
> >Senior Systems Engineer=3D3D3D3D20
> >Computerland Central=3D3D3D3D20
> >P O Box 1470=3D3D3D3D20
> >PALMERSTON NORTH
> >Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
> >Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
> >Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
> >E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
> >CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =
> =3D3D3D3D
> >information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
> =3D
> >=3D3D
> >=3D3D3D
> >=3D3D3D3D
> >not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =3D3D3D3D
> >dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =3D
> >=3D3D3D3D
> >prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me
> >=3D3D3D3D
> >immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Thank =
> =3D3D
> >=3D3D3D3D
> >you.
> >=3D3D3D3DA0
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Ron Oglesby [mailto:roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D3D20
> >Sent: Friday, 6 June 2003 1:49 p.m.
> >To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
> >
> >The exams are not available yet (I think q3 is the date now). But I
> >doubt there will be a lot of these guys outside of resellers.
> >
> >Simple reason is that it is really like an in-depth MetaFrame Admin
> >course that gets more into the services and the =
> architecture.=3D3D3D3D3D20
> >
> >Once you take the written exam (computer based obviously) and pass then
> >you will have to go to Citrix and take a hands-on much like the CCIE. =
> Of
> >course you have to pay for it, and travel... much more than spending a
> >Saturday morning at Silvan for 100 bucks.
> >
> >Now I THINK that resellers might be able to use some other funds for
> >this. But even if they cant most will be required to keep one of these
> >guys on staff anyway and will for up for their top Citrix guy.
> >
> >I mean when the CCEA first came out we all thought it was the biggest
> >thing in the reseller community. Hell I even took everything in beta so
> >I could get a cool "original CCEA" jacket from them for the first 50
> >guys to get the cert. But alas now it is no big deal and I don't even
> >know where the jacket is anymore.
> >
> >
> >
> >Ron Oglesby
> >Senior Technical Architect
> >=3D3D3D3D3D20
> >RapidApp
> >Office 312.372.7188
> >Mobile 815.325.7618
> >email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >=3D3D3D3D3D20
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Sergio Blum [mailto:sergio@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D3D3D20
> >Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 8:43 PM
> >To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: [THIN] CCIA
> >
> >Does anyone know anything about the CCIA certification.=3D3D3D3D3D3D20
> >Have they already launched the the exam?
> >Have anyone already made it?
> >
> >
> >________________________________________=3D3D3D3D3D3D20
> >Sergio Adriano Blum - www.sisnema.com.br=3D3D3D3D3D3D20
> >MCP - MCSA - MCDBA - MCSE - CCA - CCEA
> > ByBLUM Developments
> >
> >Microsoft Certified System Engineer
> >Microsoft Certified Database Administrator
> >Citrix Certified Enterprise Administrator
> >________________________________________
> >
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