[THIN] Re: Assistance....those using Thin Clients ( WYSE/Comp a q)

  • From: "Jim Kenzig Kenzig.com" <jkenzig@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:00:47 -0800 (PST)

Well being one of the largest  public libararies in the US with 650,000+ 
patrons I think they would get a little cheesed off if we did that.  : )  98% 
of our network traffic is web browsing

I've gone the thin client route, the NT/XPembedded route and can honestly say 
that model just doesn't work for what every Tom, dick and harry coming off the 
street to browse the web needs. Adobe Acrobat 7 alone is a 20 meg program for 
petes sake and PDF is rampant throughout the web especially at government sites 
like the IRS (think taxes).  
 
If all you are doing is connecting to published applications a thin client is a 
very viable alternative...but if you need  a browser and if it doesn't have the 
additional needed plugins like shockwave, adobe, quicktime, etc, being able to 
be available to me makes the device just a boat anchor.  
 
Here is some more fodder and I can prove this.  Try and print a 40 page PDF 
file on an XPembedded terminal and see how long it takes, I've seen it take up 
to an hour...the reason, because that file will reach over a gig in size while 
printing and chew up the flash ram faster than it can dish it out. Flash ram is 
simply not NOR will it ever be a viable solution for running a browser, you 
need a hard disk and that makes the thin client a PC. 
 
Jim Kenzig
 
 

Jeff Malczewski <wrote:
Or you can just be like us, and deny web access to 98% of your employees...  If 
someone has a LEGITIMATE need for web access, then they get a desktop machine 
that's locked up with GPOs so they can't break it.  :)
 
I realize this isn't ideal for all situations/employers, but it works GREAT for 
us.  :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Kenzig Kenzig.com [mailto:jkenzig@xxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 2:23 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Assistance....those using Thin Clients ( WYSE/Compa q)


Well with a CE or XPembedded client you usually can't write to the core os 
files so patching 
"usually" isn't considered an issue to be concerned with.   
However......an upatched browser is still an unpatched browser and if a virus 
happens to know how to write to memory instead of disk it can still wreak havoc 
on your network by spreading to other machines and servers that can. 
With these small flash disks on these units it is almost impossible to even run 
an AV program on them due to space limitations.  I am just not buying the 
concept at this point.  
 
Basically Web browsing is NOT a SBC friendly app, there are too many 
javascripts, flash animations etc out there on the web that are required to 
have an even workable browsing experience, these technologies work like crap on 
a TS/Citrix server so you NEED to have the browser local. You also NEED to have 
space on the sytem to have the java, shockwave, adobe etc plugins and to be 
able to update those plugins as needed. The best solution is a hypbrid 
solution.  A hard disk in a small form factor with TS/Citrix client locked down 
by a program like Altiris Protect that keeps the image from being changed and 
with an AV client on it like Trend SMB . 
JK

 wrote:
You may not use the local IE, but you still must patch it, correct?

Does CE require as much patching (security) as other OS? I don't believe
so. 

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Jeff Malczewski
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 12:11 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Assistance....those using Thin Clients (WYSE/Compaq)

We use WYSE CE-based thin clients.. There are NO local peripherals, every
printer in the place is on the network, and EVERYTHING the user needs is
contained within the TS environment.

We went so far with our Win9x clients as to modify the system.ini file and
change the shell from explorer.exe to mstsc.exe.. That way, the machine
comes up, boots to the nasty green-ish background, and then connects
directly to TS. We only use the OS on the box to hijack it's video drivers
and TCP/IP stack. No local printers, don't use the local IE, nothing.


On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 11:51:33 -0600, Scott Skrogstad wrote:
> Then I would suggest the Capio NeoLinux units. Disk space is not an 
> issue and local printing is not an issue. They do have limitted USB 
> support and have a parallel port.
> 
> The nice thing about Neoware is they will send you one to try for 30 
> days for FREE...
> 
> Scott
> 
> ----------------------Original message------------------- Only thing 
> we typically connect to them are either a Serial or parallel printer 
> on some. I know to be sure to get a few with parallel for that 
> application.
> 
> Interesting thought Jim. I had not thought about the disk space 
> issue, as that is the issue we have on our current Despros, lack of 
> disk for ptaches and such, so we rebuild as DOS.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Skrogstad [mailto:scott@xxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 11:44 AM
> To: Schneider, Chad M; thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [THIN] Assistance....those using Thin Clients
> (WYSE/Compaq)
> 
> We use and sell the Neoware Capio product. We have had great results 
> with the NeoLinux based verions. Very straight forward units and very 
> inexpensive. The big question in used a XP or XPE based unit is what 
> devices are you going to attach to them, ie. Palm Pilots, Web Cams, 
> and USB scanners. Things like that require an XP or XPE operating 
> system to get them attached and useable by the software.
> 
> Scott
> 
> ----------------------Original message------------------- I finally 
> have management looking seriously at replacing some of our Deskpro 
> 2000/4000's with thin clients.
> 
> Mentality up until recently was to spend a few bucks more and get a 
> full PC.
> 
> Big thing I am wondering about is patching of the thin clients. IE, 
> OS, etc. Some machines we have rebuilt as DOS clients, which allows 
> us to avoid such client side patching. No Virus Scan, no M$ patches, 
> etc.
> 
> I see Linux thins, I see XP SP2 thins, I see CE thins....., Windows 
> based clients have IE6, now, I would assume that things like XP, IE, 
> even CE would still need patching. If so, does the use of the 
> management software make this more feasible?
> 
> Forgive my ignorance on this issue.
> 
> Chad M. Schneider
> Technology Analyst
> Bemis Company, Inc.
> 920-303-7609
> "Just because you can, does not mean that you should."
> 
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for Microsoft Terminal Services
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