[THIN] Re: 64 bit experience - repost

  • From: "Hutchinson, Alan" <Alan.Hutchinson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 14:54:11 +0100

Maybe I was understating when I said that I'm not sure I believe the
scalability figures - I should have said that not only do I not believe
the scalability figures, I never have believed these (for anything let
alone x64). That said, any further ino you have would be good - may as
well overload me brain even more.
 
Apart from scalability I think that the issue for me will things such as
the different add-ins for I.E. that Tim mentions, and miscellaneous
drivers and installers
 
Thanks to both you and Tim for your responses. 
 
Alan.

  _____  

From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Andrew Wood
Sent: 09 June 2006 09:55
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: 64 bit experience - repost


Alan, 
 
Look hard at the performance figures - there are some instances where
there are actually *lower* numbers when migrating to x64 - I'll see if I
can get my hands on a copy of the presentation :)

  _____  

From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Hutchinson, Alan
Sent: 08 June 2006 17:57
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: 64 bit experience - repost


Thanks for that Andrew - one of my motives for looking at 64 bit (apart
from the technical challenge) is that once we get an environment up and
running smoothly here we tend not to change it for a couple of years or
so (except for the usual patches and supplier software upgrades). By
that time I'll be having problems with not having gone 64 bit and
virtually no experience of it. I am resigned to running mainly 32 bits
apps at the moment and have read of the performance hit of running wow64
so I certainly won't be selling it as a way of reducing the overall
estate. 
 
I've had a quick look at the pubforum web site and can only find "Citrix
Metaframe ala 64 bit - what does it give us" 
 
http://www.pubforum.net/vip/PubForum_x64_Citrix.ppt#259,1,64 bit
Presentation Server
 
by Simon Frost from Citrix. Like you said I'm not sure I believe the
scalability figures given here either.
 
At the moment I'm leaning heavily towards a simultaneous 32 and 64 bit
build and see what breaks first - as I said above I'd like to get my
hands dirty with this whilst I've got the opportunity.
 
Thanks for your input - really useful.
 
Regards,
 
Alan.
 


  _____  

From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Andrew Wood
Sent: 08 June 2006 15:09
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: 64 bit experience - repost


Alan, 
 
Bernhard Tritsch did great presentation on 64 bit for TS at the last
pubforum. 
 
iirc the findings were essentially that the 64 bit environment didn't
really offer any additional benefit at present - in fact there could be
more effort involved in being an early adopter almost without gain.
Issues identified included getting device drivers for printers, and
other hardware, anti-virus support wasn't available from all vendors. He
highlighted the fact that a lot of existing apps are going to have to
run in the windows on windows emulation to allow the fact that they're
32 bit apps. You obviously can't have anything older - 16bit apps won't
run. This wow functionality for many apps increased resource
consumption. There were issues with the fact that they've messed around
with the system32/program files directories that can lead to some
applications not working correctly and being cumbersome to install or
not working at all.
 
More importantly, he load tested the same desktop app suite in a 32 and
64 bit environment. While the 64 bit environment could allow more
sessions to be created the apps in those (extra) sessions did not work
well and were very unreliable. Getting a user count that was reliable
meant that you were hitting about the same user count as with win32. He
showed that the testing M$ did to get the large amount of sessions
working was performed over a large amount of time - when you tried to
get many users on in a short time the environment did not hold up as
well. 
 
I wish I had a copy of the powerpoint :(  it was a very compelling
argument to sitting tight until more apps were available natively on the
x64 platform.
 
hth


  _____  

From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Michael Pardee
Sent: 08 June 2006 14:37
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: 64 bit experience - repost


very close here.  As we build our new PS4 Farm I challenged the team to
do as much with the 64 bit version as possible.  I think we are just
rolling.  I'll report back anything we find.


On 6/8/06, Hutchinson, Alan <Alan.Hutchinson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: 

        No takers? I was hoping to provoke some discussion - either I'm
way
        behind the times and evrybody is using this or (and I can't
believe
        this) I'm slightly ahead of the game, or everybody has got one
in their
        labs and is keeping quiet .......... 
        
        Regards,
        
        Alan.
        
        
        -----Original Message-----
        From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ] On
        Behalf Of Hutchinson, Alan
        Sent: 07 June 2006 16:17
        To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: [THIN] 64 bit experience
        
        Well, as far as I can see this hasn't been aired for a couple of
months 
        so I'm wondering what the experience is out there. I have the
        opportunity for a completely new build on a new infrastructure
and am
        toying with a simultaneous 32 and 64 PS server build to see how
it goes.
        I've seen the following : 
        
        CTX105744 - but this is dated October last year and can't
immediately
        see any updates to this and the only thing that puts me off
under
        functionality not supported is 'Oracle' without any further
explanation. 
        
        KB282423 - again a few months old. The bits that concern me with
this
        one relate to MDAC (but on re-reading may not be an issue), and
'64 bit
        I.E. cannot load 32-bit ActiveX controls' - which may be the
killer. 
        
        I was encouraged by Brian Maddens article
        http://www.brianmadden.com/content/content.asp?id=518 about
'dropping' a
        64 bit PS server into an existing 32 farm. Although long term I
don't 
        particularly fancy running a mixed farm.
        
        Thoughts, discussions, opinions, real experience please.
        
        Regards,
        
        Alan.
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-- 

Michael Pardee
www.blindsquirrel.org 

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