[texbirds] Re: Sunset Cemetery
- From: Ronnie Kramer <ronniekramer1964@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: josephkennedy36@xxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 15:21:18 -0500
A Cemetery Organization (several types) may indeed restrict the use of the
cemetery grounds in Texas. At least to activity, they can impose almost
any restriction, e.g. no birding allowed or no stone rubbing. However this
must be in the so stated in the organizations rules.
Cemeteries without public ingress may also restrict the time that
legitimate visitors may visit the cemetery. Note that visitiation rights
apply only "for purposes usually associated with cemetery visits," and
"during the hours determined by the owner..." While you and I may
associate cemeteries with biding, I think I can confidently state that most
people do not consider birding to be a normal purpose of a cemetery.
The only garanteed right to access to a cemetery is if you have ancestors
buried there, your purpose is to visit those ancestors, and you provide the
owner a 14 day advance notice of your visit.
I'm not saing all this applies at Sunset. I do not know the specifics at
that property.
The following is from The Texs Health & Safety Code.
*Sec. 711.041. ACCESS TO CEMETERY. (a) Any person who wishes to visit a
cemetery or private burial grounds for which no public ingress or egress is
available shall have the right to reasonable ingress and egress for the
purpose of visiting the cemetery or private burial grounds. This right of
access extends only to visitation during the hours determined by the owner
or owners of the lands under Subsection (b) or at a reasonable time as
provided by Subsection (c) and only for purposes usually associated with
cemetery visits.(b) The owner or owners of the lands surrounding the
cemetery or private burial grounds may designate the routes of reasonable
ingress and egress and reasonable hours of availability.(c) At a time
other than the time provided by Subsection (b), the owner or owners of the
lands surrounding a cemetery or private burial grounds must allow a person
to enter and exit the owner's land for the purpose of visiting the cemetery
or private burial grounds if:(1) the person provides written notice to the
owner or owners of the lands surrounding the cemetery or private burial
grounds of the person's visit;(2) the person provides the notice required
by Subdivision (1) not later than the 14th day before the date the person
wishes to visit the cemetery; and(3) the time of the visit is reasonable.*
* *
*Added by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 634, Sec. 22, eff. Sept. 1,
1993.Amended by: Acts 2009, 81st Leg., R.S., Ch. 263, Sec. 7, eff.
September 1, 2009.*
* *
* *
* *
*Sec. 711.031. RULES; CIVIL PENALTY. (a) A cemetery organization may
adopt and enforce rules:(1) concerning the use, care, control, management,
restriction, and protection of the cemetery operated by the cemetery
organization;(2) to restrict the use of cemetery property;
.(7) to
regulate the conduct of persons on cemetery property and to prevent
improper meetings at the cemetery;
..*
* *
*Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 678, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1989. Amended by
Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 634, Sec. 11, eff. Sept. 1, 1993.*
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Joseph Kennedy <josephkennedy36@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> It is designated by the state as a birding site as state law says it can be
> a birding site. Any cemetary whether public or privated is open to all
> including those wishing to have a picnic on the day of the dead.
> Or inspect historic gravestones. It can be wrong to make rubbings if you
> transfer ink to the headstone but non-marking methods can be done anywhere
> at anytime.
>
> I am not sure what the county means by "private cemetary" as it does not
> agree with Texas law. Almost every cemetary in the state and country is
> private and owned by church associations, masonic groups, for profit groups
> etc. They are all privately owned; public cemetaries are normally
> charitable or municipal cemetaries and are also really private as they are
> owned by the city etc.
>
> The only truly private cemetaries would those where a rancher's family is
> buried back in the oak grove. Even in that case any family member etc must
> have perpetual access after the ranch is sold or even subdivided. There is
> much trouble involved if anyone wants to move the bones at a later date.
>
> This has been a problem in many parts of the country and has always been
> resolved in favor of the public. The people claiming privacy usually have
> other bones to pick including a california gentleman who was illegally
> trapping endanged species of lizards that sat on the gravestones. Visitors
> who came to see the lizards would be of great risk to the cemetary guardian
> who was arrested.
>
> Perhaps a copy of the texas statute could be explained by the commissioner
> if he actually read it and had the papers from the cemetary that stated why
> that cemetary was exempt from the law.
>
> The problem is identical with public access to texas beaches which have
> guaranteed access but beachfront owners not wanting anyone on "their"
> private beach.
>
> Access must be given and it is no ones business what a person does on the
> cemetary grounds or beach as long as the activity is not illegal.
>
> there is a whole series of posting here with nasty people claiming public
> roads cannot be birded, you cannot stop and look at my field, the public
> does not have access to a wildlife area, etc. Where the deputy is a cousin
> on the complainant or the complainant waves a gun, there may be some right
> of possession but only that which grows out of the barrel of the gun. You
> can go up the local food chain but make sure that your insurance, car
> inspection sticker etc are current and no lights are burned out.
>
> But practically you have to be willing to put up with some annoyance to
> push the issue. As an old cemetary walker for birds or history, I never
> really had a problem if I was polite and courteous. And you make friends
> and find really good places. Long ago I was given access to a marvelous old
> native pecan grove and did some study at the library and found the Moses
> Austin may have helped plant the original trees or their ancestors. Had a
> great picnic there with the owners family when I gave him copies of the
> papers and then saw the old cemetary that no one else knew existed.
>
> On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:48 PM, melissa isom <isommelissa@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all;
> > I had gotten the name and number of the president of the Sunset Cemetery
> > from the county commissioner. I gave him a call and asked about what
> > had been going on concerning the birders. He said that it is a private
> > cemetery and that he had no idea how or why it was designated by
> > the Texas Parks and Wildlife as a birding site. He said that they do
> > not want the public in there birding because people were parking on
> > the grave sites and they are also concerned about liability. They had
> > recently found underground hornets nest. He suggested that birders
> > go in the fish hatchery (next door) if they want to bird.
> > Don't kill the messenger. I have enjoyed birding at the cemetery many
> > times.
> > Melissa Isom
> > Ingram, Texas
> > Edit your Freelists account settings for TEXBIRDS at
> > //www.freelists.org/list/texbirds
> >
> > Reposting of traffic from TEXBIRDS is prohibited without seeking
> permission
> > from the List Owner
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Joseph C. Kennedy
> on Buffalo Bayou in West Houston
> Josephkennedy36@xxxxxxxxx
>
>
> Edit your Freelists account settings for TEXBIRDS at
> //www.freelists.org/list/texbirds
>
> Reposting of traffic from TEXBIRDS is prohibited without seeking permission
> from the List Owner
>
>
>
Edit your Freelists account settings for TEXBIRDS at
//www.freelists.org/list/texbirds
Reposting of traffic from TEXBIRDS is prohibited without seeking permission
from the List Owner
Other related posts:
