[texbirds] Re: Reporting locations of rare sightings
- From: Cameron Carver <c.o.carver@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "MBB22222@xxxxxxx" <MBB22222@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 06:24:01 -0600
Are there any photos that show definitively that this bird was photographed on
the UTC? All of the photos posted appear to simply be on some beach somewhere.
Are the photos geotagged? Is there something in the photos that can give a
sense of place? If not, why should we assume that this bird was found on the
UTC? Should we simply take his word?
Cameron Carver
Lubbock, TX
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 19, 2013, at 0:53, MBB22222@xxxxxxx wrote:
> Although I am thinking about to applied to some of posted ideas I have no
> intention at all even to try present excuses of my decision. Some would
> question them (excuses) or even accuse me of lying so why bother. In
> meantime I just want to shortly address this and a few similar replies as I
> am
> entertained by many insinuations about my person that cannot be farther from
> the truth (so by name calling on another forum - thanks goodness Texbirds
> did not go that low, yet). Why would somebody speculate about another person
> without even knowing that person and spend totally unproductive time on
> making his/her own vision of fake reality is beyond my imagination. There
> are
> so many interesting birds out there - focus on finding some instead.
>
>
>
> …………Every time this subject appears I see the same potential reasons
> given for suppressing news of a rarity. I won't list them again here
> because
> they have been stated and restated so many times I'm sure we all know them
> by heart. I think many of these reasons are valid if the circumstances are
> as proposed with that reason.
> However, I do not feel that they apply in this circumstance. ………….
>
> And I feel that wild boars could grown wings and fly. I did not see one
> (with wings) yet but should I keep trying to find one? From when somebody’s
> feelings can be use as an argument in any serious discussion?
>
> ….. The tern was obviously photographed on a beach close to the water's
> edge. ……
>
> Yes, obviously
>
> …… All Texas beaches are public. All Texas beaches are subject to the
> same random, uncontrollable access by us humans. ……..
>
> Really, what about private islands etc? But reading some other posts,
> subject not related, some twitchers think that they do have right to
> trespass,
> rarer the bird - stronger the right. Note: anything I will write in this
> reply might or might not be related to the ELTE location.
>
> And yes, most beaches in Texas are subject to the same random,
> uncontrollable access by us humans but, unfortunately, many do not act as
> humans once
> there.
>
>
> ….. Mark seems to spend most of his time between Bryan Beach and San Luis
> Pass …….
>
>
> Very wrong: this year I spent very small part of my time in the field
> there and I did not know that I had a tail watching were I go. Again this
> does
> not mean that I saw ELTE there or not.
>
> …. and if any of you have visited this area, you'll know that it receives
> so much recreational visitation (beach-goers, walkers, vehicles,
> para-sailors, surfers, fishermen, etc) that I contest it would be almost
> impossible
> for birders to disturb birds (by any significant degree) more than they
> already experience on a daily basis. ……
>
> BTW if one wants to go to river month buy a shovel (big one in Wal-Mart
> about $7) - great investment, I used it a few times this year. Also this
> will provide help to access places were there are no people, and twitchers.
> Just birds.
>
>
> …… So while there are good and valid reasons for suppressing a rarity, in
> this case they simply do not apply, I feel. …..
>
>
> Feelings again, like in the future teller’s room. Anybody still believes
> in witch craft?
>
>
> …… Does anyone have the "right" to not reveal a bird's location? - of
> course they do! But this is not a matter of someone's rights. It is about
> chosen behavior within a group that one has chosen to join, engages with,
> seeks advice from, gets bird location details from, and - let's be honest -
> enjoys the ego-stroking feedback from, regarding photos! Let me say that
> all of this applies to almost all of us - especially me. When one is part
> of
> such a group and enjoys the benefits listed above, to then choose - for no
> obvious reason - to suppress the location of a VERY rare bird that many in
> the group would like to see seems to me, well, rather mean. There is an
> unwritten covenant that if you take from the group, you give to the group. ….
>
> Texbirds for long time has many subgroups. It seems that we do not belong
> to the same one. Some of these subgroups decided to leave Texbirds and
> create new fora - one has to have urban dictionary to understand words used
> there. BTW great places to check on true faces and personality characters of
> some members there. Some loudly enounced that they are leaving Texbirds
> and never going to come back here. Often it takes weeks, if not days, to see
> them back on Texbirds - business is business, right? There must be no
> clients in these other places.
>
> It is nice if somebody admits to his own ego-stroking needs. Take from -
> give to also sounds good but how this works in the real life?
>
> …. But Mark has "chased" birds found by others: check out his excellent
> photos of the Yellow-faced Grassquit at Goose Island and the Varied Buntings
> from Junction, to name a couple of examples. ….
>
>
> Sort of bad examples as well. Yellow-faced Grassquit - I spent a lot of
> time there for other reasons - it happened that on that day I was there. I
> would not travel even 10 miles to ‘chase’ this bird. Varied Buntings from
> Junction - I found these guys myself, or better said they found me. If I
> did not have them in the front of my lens I would not take a trip to find
> one.
>
> Now I could give a lot examples showing my approach to chase rarities.
> Perhaps I write about one case as this is verifiable by a person who knows me
>
> very little so should have no reason to twist the story. Not long ago
> Sulfur Flycatcher was found at Quintana by Sandy. She came to me on the beach
>
> and told me about it - I think she was surprised that I showed no interest to
> see it. BTW I told her that if I want to study a bird I will travel to
> places were I can find them in larger number in their natural habitats. I am
> not interested in a few snapshots in bad light of the bird I have no
> interest in. I left the island as fast as I could as I was afraid that
> circus is
> coming to town. On the way out I passed people (with Sandy) looking at the
> bird - I did not even slow down. We wave hands to each other. For record - I
> never saw that bird in my life but this no mater if I ever will or not.
> Have other more interesting, to me, things to do.
>
> When I am on flycatchers it remain me of something. Martin feels that he
> can speculate about other people characters and motives. Should I speculate
> what were his motives when he was sending so many times so many people on
> wild goose chases after wrongly Iding some birds . Helping local economy?
> Stroking his ego? Giving back to community? Perhaps none of these so why
> even
> try to speculate and who wants to know? One always can ask directly. I am
> sure he knows many birds better than average birder. But IMHO there are
> limits if somebody wants to know them all. I rather prefer people who study
> small groups, even individual species - unfortunately this approach became
> unpopular.
>
> ….. In a (probably futile) effort to reduce the hate mail, ….
>
> I know of miracle way to handle this. Ignore them - works like a charm.
>
>
> ….. I'd like to say that since some of you chose to publicly defend
> suppression in general and Mark's choice in particular, it is okay for me to
> publicly question some of the premises you used to do-so. ….
>
> I would like here to thanks all who decided to do so. I learned a lot about
> great character of these few people (that in all cases, except one, I
> never met) and, not surprisingly, all of them have great knowledge about
> birds.
>
>
>
> At the end I would like to show one more speculation coming from another
> poster that also is quite misleading.
>
> Adam Wood wrote:
>
> …… Adding to the point that Mark spends a lot of time finding his own
> interesting birds and that the rest of the birding community is free to do
> and
> should do the same thing. I think this is asking a bit much. Mark is in an
> enviable position that his photography is outstanding and it is able to
> support his life style thus enabling him to be able to spend a large
> quantity
> of hours in the field with the birds that only increases his odds of
> finding a really interesting bird. I realize there are many birders out
> there
> like him or are retired that can put in the necessary number of field hours
> to
> find an interesting bird but then there are those of us who work 40 hours
> a week day jobs and don't have the ability to easily put in the hours that
> it requires to increase the odds of finding that interesting bird. We rely
> on others sharing their good finds with us to be able to see a fair number
> of rarities. …..
>
> Although very nice post it is based on complete wrong assumptions and my
> reply is not personal, I never met Adam and I do not use my ‘feelings‘ to
> judge a person.
>
> Usually I work more than 40 hours a week (do not even ask me how many hours
> a week at my day time job I worked lately). It is a matter of priority
> how one wants to spend the rest of the 24 hour days and weekends. During the
> summer sun raises early and set late … Get up early and go to the field,
> leave work and drive straight to the field … Everybody has this choice.
> Some
> prefer doing other things and demand from others to give them things on
> the silver plate. How about that others should find the bird and then call
> the limo to take twitchers personally to the location - they all deserve
> that, right? We own them that, right? X number on the list is the most
> important indicator of the person status in the community. These who watch
> cardinals in their own backyards are subhuman’s, right? But should serve
> super
> humans and feel blessed, right? In all these big lists how many birds were
> found personally by a lister? Who and for what needs them (big lists). Birds
> we
> re already found and documented. It will be more important to try find
> another rare one that was not documented yet. Why to create this huge carbon
> print just to say ‘me too’?
>
> I need to go to sleep - there is another long day tomorrow ….
>
> Am I mean? - as suggested by Martin. Do not get too close if you do not
> want to find out if I can bite or not :)
>
> Mark B Bartosik
> Houston, Texas
> http://www.pbase.com/mbb/from_the_field
>
>
> In a message dated 9/18/2013 10:16:44 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> upupa@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:
>
> Dear All,
> Every time this subject appears I see the same potential reasons given for
> suppressing news of a rarity. I won't list them again here because they
> have been stated and restated so many times I'm sure we all know them by
> heart. I think many of these reasons are valid if the circumstances are as
> proposed with that reason.
> However, I do not feel that they apply in this circumstance. The tern was
> obviously photographed on a beach close to the water's edge. All Texas
> beaches are public. All Texas beaches are subject to the same random,
> uncontrollable access by us humans. Mark seems to spend most of his time
> between
> Bryan Beach and San Luis Pass, and if any of you have visited this area,
> you'll know that it receives so much recreational visitation (beach-goers,
> walkers, vehicles, para-sailors, surfers, fishermen, etc) that I contest it
> would be almost impossible for birders to disturb birds (by any significant
> degree) more than they already experience on a daily basis.
> So while there are good and valid reasons for suppressing a rarity, in
> this case they simply do not apply, I feel.
> Does anyone have the "right" to not reveal a bird's location? - of course
> they do! But this is not a matter of someone's rights. It is about chosen
> behavior within a group that one has chosen to join, engages with, seeks
> advice from, gets bird location details from, and - let's be honest - enjoys
> the ego-stroking feedback from, regarding photos! Let me say that all of
> this applies to almost all of us - especially me. When one is part of such
> a group and enjoys the benefits listed above, to then choose - for no
> obvious reason - to suppress the location of a VERY rare bird that many in
> the
> group would like to see seems to me, well, rather mean. There is an
> unwritten covenant that if you take from the group, you give to the group.
>
> Some in this discussion have mentioned that Mark does not chase and spends
> a great deal of time finding his own interesting birds. I certainly agree
> with the last part, and commend him for the work he puts in and insight he
> gains AND SHARES due to such efforts. But Mark has "chased" birds found
> by others: check out his excellent photos of the Yellow-faced Grassquit at
> Goose Island and the Varied Buntings from Junction, to name a couple of
> examples.
> Mark is under no obligation to explain himself, but I feel I must be
> missing something, as there seems no good reason in the apparent
> circumstances
> for Mark to choose not to share the location (although he as the right to
> so-choose).
>
> In a (probably futile) effort to reduce the hate mail, I'd like to say
> that since some of you chose to publicly defend suppression in general and
> Mark's choice in particular, it is okay for me to publicly question some of
> the premises you used to do-so.
>
> Regards,
> Martin
> ---
> Martin Reid
> San Antonio
> www.martinreid.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
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