[texbirds] Re Tropical Mockingbird
- From: Matt Heindel <mtheindel@xxxxxxx>
- To: Texbirds <texbirds@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 11:18:47 -0600
I like Eric's explanation of this unanswerable question and Keith's add on
makes sense. Some of the questions or observations people will have regarding
this vote are entirely legitimate. Some, however might have a judgmental tone,
suggesting these decisions are "wrong" and I have little patience for those. If
someone wants to count something, please, count away. If someone thinks that
they have the answer- they know the real truth
..yeah, right.
I enjoy no longer having to make those decisions as I dealt with dozens of
records in CA in my years on that committee. Some of these decisions are
excruciating. Since this is a gray area, and yet the vote is dichotomous- black
or white- the difficulty is often lost on those just looking at the simple
answer. For years, I tried to get the committee to try to place some numerical
value on our consensus in an effort to try to get the public to understand the
complexities and how close of a call these decisions sometimes are. But they
correctly rebuffed me, stating that placing some number on it might infer a
higher level of specific knowledge than one could have. So, these votes still
go in one bucket or the other, in spite of all the hand wringing and
uncertainty that accompanies the deliberations.
Committee decisions are problematic for many reasons, one of which is we all
seemingly have the collective patience of a gnat. We want to know it all. And
we would like that right now please. When in fact, the most important value of
any committee is archiving records with contemporaneous commentary. In 100
years, a Tropical Mockingbird record might look differently. The CA database is
littered with these examples. What once seemed outrageous, either on
identification grounds or natural occurrence became clearer in just 2-3
decades. When I joined, among the first records was one of the most
controversial, a Swallow-tailed Gull. there had been mo records and there were
questions. Not getting to vote "maybe," this record never had enough votes to
place it in the record. Years later, a second was found. Perhaps it escaped
from the same dang zoo (humor intended), but we felt good enough about this
second event that it was accepted, and the first record was reconsidered and
accepted.
So, put these decisions in the appropriate context. It is impossible to know,
so make comments with the appropriate circumspection. And then wait. A long,
long time.
Matt Heindel
Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
On Dec 9, 2013, at 10:34 AM, Keith Arnold <kbarnold2@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> All -
> Eric has posted a very good explanation of the problems that the TBRC faces
> with these types of records; differences of opinion on what constitutes a
> valid record for a species bring up some lively discussions among the
> committee members. What constitutes evidence of an escaped bird, one with
> human "assistance" or one that reached Texas "on it's own" can be argued
> without either side being wrong. For example, if I recall correctly, the
> Tropical Mockingbird was missing a claw, suggesting to some that it had
> been in a cage and this could certainly be true, but I have handled many
> wild birds with a missing claw, toe or even the whole foot. Similar
> arguments may apply to plumage wear.
>
> As Eric points, the committee acts on as much information as it can obtain
> and individual members act as they interpret the evidence.
>
> Keith Arnold
> .Academician, TBRC
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 9:56 PM, Eric Carpenter <ecarpe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> If the TBRC or other record committees required proof positive of
>> natural occurrence, there wouldn't be much of a need to vote on
>> records like this where there is no obtainable proof. Instead, voting
>> is done based upon gathering as much info concerning the species
>> involved as well as data on the particular record to allow one to make
>> an informed decision. Data is gathered to help answer questions like:
>> Is the bird prone to vagrancy? How far from Texas does it naturally
>> occur? Is the bird undergoing an expansion? How plausible is a
>> human-assisted scenario?
>>
>> Is natural occurrence more likely or do I have some lingering
>> questions about the bird's natural occurrence in the state? Voting
>> members must essentially pick one of the other. The decision, as in
>> the case, of "natural occurrence questionable" does not claim that we
>> know positively that the bird's occurrence wasn't natural, it just
>> means that the majority of the committee felt that there were
>> significant open questions around this.
>>
>> This comes up on other records, like Gil's example of Yellow-faced
>> Grassquit, or perhaps the Double-toothed Kite from a couple years ago.
>> Obviously there was no proof positive in those cases either, but the
>> outcome/majority vote on those was that natural occurrence was the the
>> more likely scenario.
>>
>> It is an judgement call, but hopefully an informed one. We realize
>> that others may come to different conclusions.
>>
>> --Eric
>>
>> Eric Carpenter
>> Secretary, TBRC
>> ecarpe@xxxxxxxxx
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 8:38 PM, Graham Floyd <spcgraham.floyd@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>> I have no stake in this. Never had an interest in chasing the Tropical
>>> Mockingbird. Having read the full report linked, I must ask this
>> question:
>>> Does requiring positive proof of a bird occurring naturally set a
>> standard
>>> that can never be met?
>>> Graham Floyd,
>>> San Antonio, TX
>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Eric Carpenter
>> Austin
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