[texbirds] Re: Proposal to Ban Revealing Nest Locations in TEXBIRDS
- From: Jan Piecznski <custom_heirlooms@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "josephkennedy36@xxxxxxxxx" <josephkennedy36@xxxxxxxxx>, David Sarkozi <david@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:50:39 -0700 (PDT)
Wow! I thought I had birded a lot over the years and I'm so glad I have not
witnessed any of these things. But I wouldn't think twice not to call and
report it right away. I don't really understand the profitable side of nature
photography anyways, but I would like to hear why a photographer would do some
of the things you mention. I enjoy sitting and watching the birds hopping in
and out of the flowers in Quintana and other places. Yes I have a lot of
trashed pictures, but I can get some really cute ones too. I'm far from
magazine type photos, my goal is to try to get a couple that work for a 4x6
note card.
The bird photographers I've always seen at Lafitte's Cove have always been very
friendly and help me find the birds coming to the drip and they tell me the
area other special birds were seen. I've not seen any using a flash. I never go
on the weekend, so maybe that's the difference. It would be nice if they posted
a sign not to use a flash, as they have posted where photographers are suppose
to be and where birders are suppose to be at the drip. In Yellowstone NP our
sons slammed the car door and accidentally scared off an owl that a
photographer had been setting up for his picture. We felt really bad he didn't
get 1 picture. He was really nice about it and gave them a polite
demonstration how to close the doors. I've never seen someone purposely scare
off birds to get them in flight, unless they were little kids. I just can't
figure out why pictures of birds flying away from you would make a good
picture.
It's unfortunate that wildlife have to learn to cope with humans, but they do
to survive. I've seen people walk their dogs right under the Eagle nest in
Pearland and read about people 4 wheeling right under it. As well as fishermen
dumping their trash in the water and the parents that let their kids take a bb
gun into a state park (ranger took care of that right away). We still laugh at
the lady visitor (not volunteer or ranger) so rudely keeping visitors away from
seeing the bears at all in Cades Cove that she didn't notice the one climbing
down the tree right behind her. So I don't know that I can say birders or
photographers are bad, there's far worse. I just think we have higher
expectations from birders and photographers because we are suppose to know
better and should have done a better job explaining "don't slam the car doors".
Perhaps what we should do is take some time instead to talk about best
practices when we run across a nest, proper
distance and particular birds that are more prone to leave the nest when
spooked, whose the best to complain too when we see someone not following the
guidelines.
Jeannette Piecznski
Liverpool, TX
________________________________
From: Joseph Kennedy <josephkennedy36@xxxxxxxxx>
To: David Sarkozi <david@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: TexBirds <texbirds@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 11:11 AM
Subject: [texbirds] Re: Proposal to Ban Revealing Nest Locations in TEXBIRDS
Being a favorite subject, sort of, most nests should never be publicized
anywhere, anyhow, anytime.
But there are exceptions like the Baytown bald eagles who have lines of
school buses parked there with herds of people.
Like the Pearland eagles where a sign says stay back of me and people do. I
only have been there a couple of times this year but last year you could
see where people walked in the grass and no one walked past the sign.
The horned owl nest near Brazoria that was next to a heavily traveled road
and across a large deep ditch. Or hill country nests across a river. Those
are special.
I take almost no nest pictures at all. I have never photographed a nest
near my home ever or even tried to get good looks at the hawks and owls
nests. I did take pictures of the swallow-tailed kite nest in double bayou
park from the road at a distance and the nest is over the end of the slide
and next to the swings. Soccer, picnics and fun under the nest but I did
not give out the location until after the birds fledged.
The horned owl above nested in a swainson's hawk nest from the prior year;
no photographs taken as swainson's are known nest deserters. Have some
kingbird nests from Anahuac along the road to the boat launch. Huge traffic
area and the birds are inured but did not open the car door or get out.
Tropical kingbirds were photographed on Galveston from a tree and a half up
the row and workmen were picnicking under the nest. Never went to check a
nest when it seemed that the young had hatched as that is when the grackles
or animals got the young of doves etc when the parents have to go out and
get food and the young beg. But 9 or 10 failed including one 10 feet over
one of the main sidewalks into the buildings from the parking lot.
There are bad people out there and it seems many are birders. A couple of
weeks ago I was going along 1985 east of the main Anahuac entrance and saw
a car stop and a camera carrying person jumped out and hurried over the
fence where he spooked a hawk. The hawk flew down and perched by me so I
started to take pictures when the hawk flew off in a panic. The camera
carrying person had pulled up right in front of me and was getting out of
the car. The bird went on west and I watched the process again. Jump out of
the car and the bird flushes.
Later I met birders at High Island that had the same experience. Pull up
next to them flush the hawk for all and drive down the road and flush it
again. Later on Bolivar met a second car of birders that saw the camera
person flush the hawk twice. After they went to Skillern they went back to
get the license number and report it to the refuge and game warden but
sadly the car was gone.
Actually it is a crime to harass wildlife anywhere and it is a federal
crime on a wildlife refuge. There are game wardens who enforce this happily
that live nearby and who will come if they can when you call. If I had
known that my 3 flushes were actually 9 or 10 flushes, I would have called.
This person had no regard for birds or other birders and without a doubt
would run up to a hawk nest as soon as he arrived in the area. The birders
at Lafitte's who bank their tripods together so that no one can get close
to the drips for days on end would also do the same. Even when asked by a
tour group of mainly elderly and not good walkers from Iowa for a few
minutes to watch, the leader bragged that she had been their for 3 days
after driving down from the burg west of a BIG metropolis and would never
move for anyone and the acolytes said amen and stayed put too. And all of
them were using continuous flashes.
They plant nice stuff around the drips at Quintana to provide cover for the
migrants. The first thing some birders do is watch to make sure no one is
watching and pull up the plants. And if I published pictures of them doing
that, they would sue me.
There is one noted photographer from these parts that only takes pictures
of flying birds so he flushes all the birds he sees. One day he was out on
the dike flushing birds while I was helping lead a Audubon trip there. We
wondered what to do but fishermen called the police who stopped the
flushing but sadly did not issue a ticket or arrest him.
And the gentleperson who only has a small lens so runs at birds in the hope
that they will let him get closer for just one picture. And flushes every
bird on bolivar flats and runs in front of those staying back and not
spooking the birds. Curses anyone that complains and also emails curses
when he is mentioned. What fun people.
Cars make good blinds. Paths are made to stay on. Birds nests and perches
are in cover for protection not to be trimmed for pictures. One of the
hardest things to do when taking hawk pictures from the car is starting the
engine and not scaring the hawk on departure. Sneaking up is much easier.
All birds should be left where they were after the pictures are taken. Of
course you cannot walk around a path in a sanctuary without startling birds
but the effect can be minimized. Practice being still and quiet and see
what a difference there is.
Perhaps people should have to take a course in courtesy and decency before
going out with a camera or binoculars. But those that need the course would
never take it. Bird police armed with cattle prods and tasers would also
work wonders. Some refuges have them for alligators etc and they could
easily be used on selfish birders too.
On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 12:43 PM, David Sarkozi <david@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I couple of people have expressed concern to me over people revealing
> nest locations on TEXBIRDs. I'm considering banning the revealing of
> any nest location on TEXBIRDS. While the great majority will use some
> common sense and leave a nest be, It only take one person to do
> something stupid cause a nest failure. The wider you broadcast a
> location, the greater the chance the location reaches that one person.
>
> I am not of the camp we should never disturb a bird, the very act of
> birding disturbs birds and a bird's life by some measures a series of
> disturbances. A bird by just trying to feed itself takes some risks.
> That said a nesting bird does try to minimize risk to the nest and
> repeated disturbance by even the best intention humans is a
> disturbance the bird has little defense against. If we can tell the
> bird is aware of our presence there is a disturbance.
>
> Clearly there are some some reasonable exceptions that would have to
> be made, I don't see a need to ban something like mentioning the
> rookery at High Island where the nesting birds are the attraction.
> These cases are few and far between. A recent picture from a state
> park of a nesting hawk looking straight down at a photographer are the
> kind of things I'm thinking of.
>
> My mind is not made up on this yet and I welcome your feedback and a
> debate on this, Keep it civil and state your reasoning for your
> position though.
>
> --
> David Sarkozi, List Owner TEXBIRD
> Houston, TX
> (713) 412-4409 twitter ID dsarkozi
> Edit your Freelists account settings for TEXBIRDS at
> //www.freelists.org/list/texbirds
>
> Reposting of traffic from TEXBIRDS is prohibited without seeking permission
> from the List Owner
>
>
>
--
Joseph C. Kennedy
on Buffalo Bayou in West Houston
Josephkennedy36@xxxxxxxxx
Edit your Freelists account settings for TEXBIRDS at
//www.freelists.org/list/texbirds
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