This distributor you speak of HECOTRON, can you share their web address or phone number. I buy from Global Semi here in Ontario. I have purchased stuff from Ponton in Montreal. I have a lot of RCA service lit. Up to CTC 203 if needed. Let me know. Used to buy a little from Sidnap when they where in Montreal. thanks Bruce B&T Electronics Sarnia Ontario Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gaetan" <techno1@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 1:22 PM Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost? > Here in Montreal , when I want a schematic , I used to go to Solacmar > (distributor) and they were photocopying the original they had , and selling > me 1$ per printed page ...... > They are close now , but the other distributor (Hecotron) is still doing the > same . > > Donno where the copyrights are in that , but it seems to be current way here > to have schematics . So ..... probably not copyrighted documents . > > My way of thinking is , there are copyrights on the design , not on the > schematic by itself , meaning you cannot design your own circuit using the > design of another company , that's all . > > Gaetan Bourgouin > Techno Logik > Terrebonne Que. Can. > techno1@xxxxxxxxxxxx > ***Did you know ..... > ... State with highest % of people who walk to work : Alaska. ... > > > At 10:01 16-05-02 -0400, you wrote: > > > Yes, I agree. I too help out wih prints if I can. What I was meaning to > say in my message was- I was trying to poke a bit at the folks who take > the copyrights too seriously, like I was trying to lay it on extra thick > that they shouldn't even be lending the print out because the publisher > wouldn't get any money for your friend using the print, whether or not > that would actually be part of the law or not. I really can't feel sorry > for a company such as Th*mson, ripping people off big time for service > info when they themselves have produced a below par product to begin > with. They should just be happy someone is willing to repair these > things and keep the customers satisfied that their set lasts about 10 > years. > > > > Gary McCartney > > McCartney Electronics > 7134 Fife Rd, RR 7 > Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4 > Fax: (519)821-1530 > email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > > > > > mark brock wrote: > > > > I think they mean you can't sell there copy of the print, I.e. "not > >for profit " so lend it or copy it but dont' sell it. ok, maybe I'm > >reading more into it than there really is but they made the print to make > >the machine, it doesn't cost much but paper and ink to copy it, we're > >helping the mfg. out by being able to repair the junk they make. I can > >tell you that many people will not purchase an item if it can't be > repaired, > >so prints are for the good of the mfg. as for me If I have a print and > >can help someone out, they're welcome to it, it certainly doesn't bother > >me in the least. I also take tips > >brock > >Brock Electronics > >R.R.4 box 237 > >Independence Ks. 67301 > >620-331-0235 > >fax 331-7191 > > > >brock@xxxxxxx > >mailto:brock@xxxxxxx[1] > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Gary McCartney <number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >Date: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 1:50 PM > >Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost? > > > >> > >>I don't believe that personal use stuff. (I don't really follow > >>copyright laws, but thats another story). On most copyrights I've read > >>they say something to the affect that you can not copy, whole or in > >>part, for any reason. I bet Bill Gates wouldn't allow you to copy > >>Windows for a buddy even though it's not for money. When you copy a > >>schematic, the publisher is losing money, whether it's to fix your own > >>TV or a customers TV. I'll even go one step further. If you loan a > >>schematic to someone, even if it is to be returned to you, the publisher > >>is losing money on a sale because your friend doesn't have to go buy it > >>himself. > >> > >>I also think the publishers do a decent job of ripping us off. I paid > >>$100.00 CDN for an RCA projection service manual, so I say they stole > >>from me. Ya, I know. I'm helping to pay for all the manuals that are > >>copied. > >> > >> > >>Gary McCartney > >> > >>McCartney Electronics > >>7134 Fife Rd, RR 7 > >>Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4 > >>Fax: (519)821-1530 > >>email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>Wayne Vanaman wrote: > >>> > >>>I just looked at a Panasonic, copywrite; TCE, copywrite; JVC, copywrite; > >>>Mitsubishi-No copywrite. > >>> > >>>As far as including service data with each set, when there are high > >failure > >>>rates that might be reasonable. If failure rates are low it is a waste. > >It > >>>appears to me, the best I can tell, that RCA has about a 2.5-3% in > >warranty > >>>failure rate. > >>> > >>>As far as libraries with copy machines, back to what Paul said: personal > >>>use, not for profit. I bet if you were "caught" making copies and then > >>>charging for repairs you made using that information you could be > >>>prosocuted. The question is, would it be worth it to the > >>>Manufacturer/Publisher to chase you down. > >>> > >>>There are many illegal activities that go un-persecuted. > >>> > >>>Wayne Vanaman > >>>Omega Electronics > >>>6904 W Fairfield Dr > >>>Pensacola, Fl. 32506-3310 > >>> > >>>850-456-5995 voice > >>>850-458-6369 fax > >>> > >>>Mailto:Wayne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[2] > >>>WWW.PensacolaTVRepair.Com[3] > >>> > >>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>From: "Gary McCartney" <number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >>>To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >>>Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:16 PM > >>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost? > >>> > >>>> > >>>>If they go back to including a manual with each set sold, nobody would > >>>>have to make a copy, so there wouldn't have to be a copyright law. > >>>> > >>>>Now all this talk about libraries having the Sams manuals, how do they > >>>>justify allowing everyone to make copies?? Why does every library even > >>>>have a photocopier? It seems to me almost anything found in a library > >>>>would be protected under copyright law, so it seems strange that > >>>>libraries are helping everyone break the law. Oh well, better for us > >>>>anyways. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>Gary McCartney > >>>> > >>>>McCartney Electronics > >>>>7134 Fife Rd, RR 7 > >>>>Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4 > >>>>Fax: (519)821-1530 > >>>>email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>Doug Keller wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>There should be no "copyright" laws on service literature, unless > >they > >>>want to > >>>>>go back to including a service manual with each set sold. > >>>>>Doug > >>>>> > >>>>>Paul Gendreau wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>>Walter: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>When then material is shared the profit comes from use of the > >>>material. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>No, you don't make a profit when you share a manual. But the > >person > >>>who > >>>>>>uses it does when he collects money from a customer, and that was > >>>money lost > >>>>>>to the person who was owed for the copyright. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Best regards, > >>>>>> > >>>>>>--== Paul ==-- > >>>>>> > >>>>>>------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>Paul R. Gendreau, Jr. > >>>>>>Tel: 207-490-1835 > >>>>>>Fax: 207-490-1893 > >>>>>>Email: Paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>>>>>http://www.servicesoftware.com[4] > >>>>>>------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> > >>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>>>>>[mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[5]]On Behalf Of walter wood > >>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:08 PM > >>>>>>To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>>>>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost? > >>>>>> > >>>>>>I'm also a musician, and you can bet that the > >>>>>>copyright laws are well known to us. > >>>>>>The bottom line on copying, be it tape or > >>>>>>photocopy, to determine legality, hinges on profit. > >>>>>>If the copies are for personal use, and/or there is > >>>>>>NO profit made on the deal, then no law is broken. > >>>>>>As I interpet that, we can share our resources and > >>>>>>knowledge as much as we want, but the minute > >>>>>>someone charges as much as a penny, that is > >>>>>>copyright infringement. > >>>>>>And, of course, the manufacturers don't want > >>>>>>equipment repaired anyway. > >>>>>>For that matter neither do the retailers, and > >>>>>>discount stores. > >>>>>>Everyone simply wants to profit selling new junk. > >>>>>>Walter--- Jim Myers <jr.myers@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>Probably not exactly legal but I agree with Ed, I > >>>>>>>don't think any of the > >>>>>>>manufacturers really care if we do this anyway. > >>>>>>>At least their products are > >>>>>>>getting repaired in the field. > >>>>>>>Jim Myers > >>>>>>>Telrad Electronic Services Co. > >>>>>>>Fort Wayne, IN 46815 > >>>>>>>jr.myers@xxxxxxxxxxx > >>>>>>>260-432-4486 Fax and Voice > >>>>>>>Fax is always on > >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>From: "Ed Gaidies" <teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>>To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 6:16 AM > >>>>>>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams > >>>>>>>photofact cost? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>My thinking on this is, since TechAssist is being > >>>>>>>run on a voluntary basis, > >>>>>>>implementing a service such as this would be more > >>>>>>>time consuming for the > >>>>>>>guys that only have so many hours in a day, 32 > >>>>>>>the last time I checked. > >>>>>>>Plus charging a fee for Service Literature would > >>>>>>>infringe on copyright of > >>>>>>>the companies involved. Paying these companies > >>>>>>>for use of their material > >>>>>>>would again show their greed. > >>>>>>>Keep the sharing of Service info on a > >>>>>>>peer-to-peer basis, If I have it, your > >>>>>>>welcome...If you have it..I'm welcome. > >>>>>>> This is one of the reasons Tech's go to a > >>>>>>>Peer Group like TechAssist, > >>>>>>>help is being supplied on a personal basis. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>-Ed- > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>From: walter wood <wwood_38478@xxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>>>Reply-To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 22:55:23 -0700 (PDT) > >>>>>>>>To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>>>>>>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? > >>>>>>>RE:Sams photofact cost? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Gary; Think again. I DO buy SAMS, I just don't > >>>>>>>>subscribe. I suspect that most other non > >>>>>>>>subscribers buy on an as needed basis as I do. > >>>>>>>>Also consider the help that some of us render > >>>>>>>from > >>>>>>>>PartsFinder, Z-tips, WinsTips, Jeff's tip CD, > >>>>>>>and > >>>>>>>>the thousands of dollars of factory schematics > >>>>>>>that > >>>>>>>>we are forced to buy to remain ASC's. > >>>>>>>>Also, it's pretty easy to tell who is a pro, > >>>>>>>and > >>>>>>>>who isn't. > >>>>>>>>Also, I received tons of help from the > >>>>>>>established > >>>>>>>>techs when I started out 33 years ago. > >>>>>>>>Helping out the newcomers is a way to pay back. > >>>>>>>>Saw a great movie the other day called "Pay it > >>>>>>>>Forward." > >>>>>>>>Might have a message here. > >>>>>>>>Respectfully > >>>>>>>>Walter > >>>>>>>>--- Gary McCartney <number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>>wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>What about the 400 list members who wouldn't > >>>>>>>pay > >>>>>>>>>for the subscription. > >>>>>>>>>How would they be filtered out of the benefits > >>>>>>>of > >>>>>>>>>receiving help from > >>>>>>>>>other members who do pay for the schematics? > >>>>>>>It > >>>>>>>>>would be too hard for > >>>>>>>>>each of us to keep track of who is eligable to > >>>>>>>>>receive schematic > >>>>>>>>>assistance and who wouldn't be. The other > >>>>>>>thing > >>>>>>>>>that could be done is > >>>>>>>>>make Tech Assist a pay service of $100.00 per > >>>>>>>>>year and the schematic > >>>>>>>>>service would be automatically included in > >>>>>>>that > >>>>>>>>>price. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>Gary McCartney > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>McCartney Electronics > >>>>>>>>>7134 Fife Rd, RR 7 > >>>>>>>>>Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4 > >>>>>>>>>Fax: (519)821-1530 > >>>>>>>>>email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>Bill S wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>Two thoughts; ?? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>With treasure chest schematics and with tips > >>>>>>>>>like Winstip, CD tech disc and > >>>>>>>>>>other things being available for us, I would > >>>>>>>>>assume that $840.00 cost per > >>>>>>>>>>year for subscription is kinda a waste.... > >>>>>>>BUT > >>>>>>>>>as near as I can tell, there > >>>>>>>>>>are libraries that will listen to the public > >>>>>>>>>about those things that the > >>>>>>>>>>good ole public would like to have in their > >>>>>>>>>library. In Minnesota, if the > >>>>>>>>>>local branch did not have the right sams, > >>>>>>>then > >>>>>>>>>you could order out of the > >>>>>>>>>>main branch (Minneapolis) and it would be > >>>>>>>sent > >>>>>>>>>to you "photo copied" at no > >>>>>>>>>>cost. > >>>>>>>>>>But a new thought?????????? > >>>>>>>>>>There is in the music industry a 'flat user' > >>>>>>>>>fee for music that is used in > >>>>>>>>>>the church. So if a choir or a church used a > >>>>>>>>>'copyrighted' song, then the > >>>>>>>>>>royalties were paid a one time fee to a > >>>>>>>>>clearing house that specializes in > >>>>>>>>>>just that type of thing. There is a license > >>>>>>>>>number that is assigned to that > >>>>>>>>>>church organization for the use of that > >>>>>>>>>material. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>Nowww what would happen if "we the techs" > >>>>>>>were > >>>>>>>>>to subscribe to Techassist > >>>>>>>>>>schematic clearing house (kinda like what we > >>>>>>>do > >>>>>>>>>in support for internet fee > >>>>>>>>>>that is paid to Techassist). If I needed a > >>>>>>>CTC > >>>>>>>>>177 print and I had paid a > >>>>>>>>>>yearly fee of $100.00 (as an example) and the > >>>>>>>>>print was either faxed or > >>>>>>>>>>emailed and the clearing house would pay a > >>>>>>>>>royalty fee to RCA and so on. > >>>>>>>>>>This would offer us an advantage at being > >>>>>>>more > >>>>>>>>>legitimate legally speaking, > >>>>>>>>>>Answers the critics of copyrights, Offer us > >>>>>>>>>better more timely resources, > >>>>>>>>>>and helps support each other in a way that > >>>>>>>may > >>>>>>>>>allow for us to answer > >>>>>>>>>>questions about problems rather than looking > >>>>>>>up > >>>>>>>>>prints and such. We could > >>>>>>>>>>even contribute to the library as it were. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>Granted there would be a lot of work. I read > >>>>>>>>>that the list is up to 800 > >>>>>>>>>>plus members and say for example if 400 > >>>>>>>people > >>>>>>>>>paid the $100.00 yearly fee, > >>>>>>>>>>that would be $40,000 per year to run this > >>>>>>>>>thing. > >>>>>>>>>>My two bits... > >>>>>>>>>>Bill Sorensen > >>>>>>>>>>New Life Video &Audio > >>>>>>>>>>billans@xxxxxxxxxxxx > >>>>>>>>>>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>>>From: "Tel-Tek Electronics" > >>>>>>>>><teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>>>>>To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 1:23 PM > >>>>>>>>>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sams photofact > >>>>>>>cost? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>With all you guys unsubbing, no wonder the > >>>>>>>>>price keeps going up. But > >>>>>>>>>>that's > >>>>>>>>>>>pretty high for a monthly charge. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>-Ed- > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>Tel-Tek Electronics > >>>>>>>>>>>Midland, Ont. Canada. > >>>>>>>>>>>teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>"Quality will be remembered, long after > >>>>>>>Price > >>>>>>>>>is forgotten" > >>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>>>>From: "al" <al@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>>>>>>To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 2:29 PM > >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sams photofact > >>>>>>>>>cost? > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>I unsubbed,it will take years for me to > >>>>>>>>>notice.For $70. per monthg I can > >>>>>>>>>>>>order whatever I need,price was too high. > >>>>>>>>>Comments? al > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>alleathe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>>>>>>>>>>>Al Leatherman > >>>>>>>>>>>>Mine Hill, NJ 07803 > >>>>>>>>>>>>973-361-5796 > >>>>>>>>>>>>WWW.ALS-TV.NET[6] > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Dan Garris" <dgarris@xxxxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>>>>>>>To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 1:18 PM > >>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [TechAssist] Sams photofact cost? > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>I am a long-time Sams Photofacts > >>>>>>>>>subscriber and presently paying $70 > >>>>>>>>>>per > >>>>>>>>>>>>>month for sub. UPS is $3.84. SO my > >>>>>>>>>Monthly total for my Sams sub is > >>>>>>>>>>>>$73.84 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>How much are other shops here in the > >>>>>>>>>group paying? Many local shops > >>>>>>>>>>I've > >>>>>>>>>>>>>spoken to have long canceled their sub. > >>>>>>>>>Prices keep rising also on the > >>>>>>>>>>>>Sams > >>>>>>>>>>>>>sub. But I like the sub rather than the > >>>>>>>>>online method. Any comments > >>>>>>>>>>from > >>>>>>>>>>>>>other shops on the group here? > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>Dan Garris > >>>>>>>>>>>>>Garris TV > >>>>>>>>>>>>>3104 Neuse Blvd. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>New Bern, NC. 28560-4116 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>252-638-4477 voice > >>>>>>>>>>>>>252-635-2772 fax > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>Mailto:dgarris@xxxxxxxxxxx[7] > > --- Links --- > 1 mailto:brock@xxxxxxx > 2 mailto:Wayne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > 3 http://www.pensacolatvrepair.com/ > 4 http://www.servicesoftware.com/ > 5 mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > 6 http://www.als-tv.net/ > 7 mailto:dgarris@xxxxxxxxxxx > > > ------------------------------------------ > To REMOVE your email address, click here: > http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html > ------------------------------------------ > ***NEW*** Tips Added Instantly!!!*** > Submit Repair Tips here: > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/ ------------------------------------------ To REMOVE your email address, click here: http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html ------------------------------------------ ***NEW*** Tips Added Instantly!!!*** Submit Repair Tips here: http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/