[TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?
- From: "Phillip R. Hull" <phil245@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 11:54:11 -0400
I think he has something there. If you had five techs maybe you would
need to buy five of all the schematics
Phillip R Hull
phil245@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Myers" <jr.myers@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 10:47 AM
Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?
>
> If another technician in your shop needed a print that you had would you
> lend it to him, (her)? Sure you would! So this "shop" has 800 technicians,
> right?
> End of discussion, please!
> Jim Myers
> Telrad Electronic Services Co.
> Fort Wayne, IN 46815
> jr.myers@xxxxxxxxxxx
> 260-432-4486 Fax and Voice
> Fax is always on
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mark brock" <brock@xxxxxxx>
> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 9:54 AM
> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?
>
>
>
> I think they mean you can't sell there copy of the print, I.e. " not
> for profit " so lend it or copy it but dont' sell it. ok, maybe I'm
> reading more into it than there really is but they made the print to make
> the machine, it doesn't cost much but paper and ink to copy it, we're
> helping the mfg. out by being able to repair the junk they make. I can
> tell you that many people will not purchase an item if it can't be
repaired,
> so prints are for the good of the mfg. as for me If I have a print
and
> can help someone out, they're welcome to it, it certainly doesn't bother
> me in the least. I also take tips
> brock
> Brock Electronics
> R.R.4 box 237
> Independence Ks. 67301
> 620-331-0235
> fax 331-7191
>
> brock@xxxxxxx
> mailto:brock@xxxxxxx
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary McCartney <number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 1:50 PM
> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?
>
>
> >
> >I don't believe that personal use stuff. (I don't really follow
> >copyright laws, but thats another story). On most copyrights I've read
> >they say something to the affect that you can not copy, whole or in
> >part, for any reason. I bet Bill Gates wouldn't allow you to copy
> >Windows for a buddy even though it's not for money. When you copy a
> >schematic, the publisher is losing money, whether it's to fix your own
> >TV or a customers TV. I'll even go one step further. If you loan a
> >schematic to someone, even if it is to be returned to you, the publisher
> >is losing money on a sale because your friend doesn't have to go buy it
> >himself.
> >
> >I also think the publishers do a decent job of ripping us off. I paid
> >$100.00 CDN for an RCA projection service manual, so I say they stole
> >from me. Ya, I know. I'm helping to pay for all the manuals that are
> >copied.
> >
> >
> >Gary McCartney
> >
> >McCartney Electronics
> >7134 Fife Rd, RR 7
> >Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4
> >Fax: (519)821-1530
> >email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Wayne Vanaman wrote:
> >>
> >> I just looked at a Panasonic, copywrite; TCE, copywrite; JVC,
copywrite;
> >> Mitsubishi-No copywrite.
> >>
> >> As far as including service data with each set, when there are high
> failure
> >> rates that might be reasonable. If failure rates are low it is a
waste.
> It
> >> appears to me, the best I can tell, that RCA has about a 2.5-3% in
> warranty
> >> failure rate.
> >>
> >> As far as libraries with copy machines, back to what Paul said:
personal
> >> use, not for profit. I bet if you were "caught" making copies and then
> >> charging for repairs you made using that information you could be
> >> prosocuted. The question is, would it be worth it to the
> >> Manufacturer/Publisher to chase you down.
> >>
> >> There are many illegal activities that go un-persecuted.
> >>
> >> Wayne Vanaman
> >> Omega Electronics
> >> 6904 W Fairfield Dr
> >> Pensacola, Fl. 32506-3310
> >>
> >> 850-456-5995 voice
> >> 850-458-6369 fax
> >>
> >> Mailto:Wayne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> WWW.PensacolaTVRepair.Com
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Gary McCartney" <number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:16 PM
> >> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?
> >>
> >> >
> >> > If they go back to including a manual with each set sold, nobody
would
> >> > have to make a copy, so there wouldn't have to be a copyright law.
> >> >
> >> > Now all this talk about libraries having the Sams manuals, how do
they
> >> > justify allowing everyone to make copies?? Why does every library
even
> >> > have a photocopier? It seems to me almost anything found in a library
> >> > would be protected under copyright law, so it seems strange that
> >> > libraries are helping everyone break the law. Oh well, better for us
> >> > anyways.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Gary McCartney
> >> >
> >> > McCartney Electronics
> >> > 7134 Fife Rd, RR 7
> >> > Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4
> >> > Fax: (519)821-1530
> >> > email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Doug Keller wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > There should be no "copyright" laws on service literature, unless
> they
> >> want to
> >> > > go back to including a service manual with each set sold.
> >> > > Doug
> >> > >
> >> > > Paul Gendreau wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > Walter:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > When then material is shared the profit comes from use of the
> >> material.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > No, you don't make a profit when you share a manual. But the
> person
> >> who
> >> > > > uses it does when he collects money from a customer, and that was
> >> money lost
> >> > > > to the person who was owed for the copyright.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Best regards,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --== Paul ==--
> >> > > >
> >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > Paul R. Gendreau, Jr.
> >> > > > Tel: 207-490-1835
> >> > > > Fax: 207-490-1893
> >> > > > Email: Paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > http://www.servicesoftware.com
> >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > >
> >> > > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > > From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of walter wood
> >> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:08 PM
> >> > > > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I'm also a musician, and you can bet that the
> >> > > > copyright laws are well known to us.
> >> > > > The bottom line on copying, be it tape or
> >> > > > photocopy, to determine legality, hinges on profit.
> >> > > > If the copies are for personal use, and/or there is
> >> > > > NO profit made on the deal, then no law is broken.
> >> > > > As I interpet that, we can share our resources and
> >> > > > knowledge as much as we want, but the minute
> >> > > > someone charges as much as a penny, that is
> >> > > > copyright infringement.
> >> > > > And, of course, the manufacturers don't want
> >> > > > equipment repaired anyway.
> >> > > > For that matter neither do the retailers, and
> >> > > > discount stores.
> >> > > > Everyone simply wants to profit selling new junk.
> >> > > > Walter--- Jim Myers <jr.myers@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Probably not exactly legal but I agree with Ed, I
> >> > > > > don't think any of the
> >> > > > > manufacturers really care if we do this anyway.
> >> > > > > At least their products are
> >> > > > > getting repaired in the field.
> >> > > > > Jim Myers
> >> > > > > Telrad Electronic Services Co.
> >> > > > > Fort Wayne, IN 46815
> >> > > > > jr.myers@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > > 260-432-4486 Fax and Voice
> >> > > > > Fax is always on
> >> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > > From: "Ed Gaidies" <teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 6:16 AM
> >> > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams
> >> > > > > photofact cost?
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > My thinking on this is, since TechAssist is being
> >> > > > > run on a voluntary basis,
> >> > > > > implementing a service such as this would be more
> >> > > > > time consuming for the
> >> > > > > guys that only have so many hours in a day, 32
> >> > > > > the last time I checked.
> >> > > > > Plus charging a fee for Service Literature would
> >> > > > > infringe on copyright of
> >> > > > > the companies involved. Paying these companies
> >> > > > > for use of their material
> >> > > > > would again show their greed.
> >> > > > > Keep the sharing of Service info on a
> >> > > > > peer-to-peer basis, If I have it, your
> >> > > > > welcome...If you have it..I'm welcome.
> >> > > > > This is one of the reasons Tech's go to a
> >> > > > > Peer Group like TechAssist,
> >> > > > > help is being supplied on a personal basis.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > -Ed-
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > From: walter wood <wwood_38478@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > > > Reply-To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > > > Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 22:55:23 -0700 (PDT)
> >> > > > > > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought?
> >> > > > > RE:Sams photofact cost?
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Gary; Think again. I DO buy SAMS, I just don't
> >> > > > > > subscribe. I suspect that most other non
> >> > > > > > subscribers buy on an as needed basis as I do.
> >> > > > > > Also consider the help that some of us render
> >> > > > > from
> >> > > > > > PartsFinder, Z-tips, WinsTips, Jeff's tip CD,
> >> > > > > and
> >> > > > > > the thousands of dollars of factory schematics
> >> > > > > that
> >> > > > > > we are forced to buy to remain ASC's.
> >> > > > > > Also, it's pretty easy to tell who is a pro,
> >> > > > > and
> >> > > > > > who isn't.
> >> > > > > > Also, I received tons of help from the
> >> > > > > established
> >> > > > > > techs when I started out 33 years ago.
> >> > > > > > Helping out the newcomers is a way to pay back.
> >> > > > > > Saw a great movie the other day called "Pay it
> >> > > > > > Forward."
> >> > > > > > Might have a message here.
> >> > > > > > Respectfully
> >> > > > > > Walter
> >> > > > > > --- Gary McCartney <number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >> What about the 400 list members who wouldn't
> >> > > > > pay
> >> > > > > >> for the subscription.
> >> > > > > >> How would they be filtered out of the benefits
> >> > > > > of
> >> > > > > >> receiving help from
> >> > > > > >> other members who do pay for the schematics?
> >> > > > > It
> >> > > > > >> would be too hard for
> >> > > > > >> each of us to keep track of who is eligable to
> >> > > > > >> receive schematic
> >> > > > > >> assistance and who wouldn't be. The other
> >> > > > > thing
> >> > > > > >> that could be done is
> >> > > > > >> make Tech Assist a pay service of $100.00 per
> >> > > > > >> year and the schematic
> >> > > > > >> service would be automatically included in
> >> > > > > that
> >> > > > > >> price.
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >> Gary McCartney
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >> McCartney Electronics
> >> > > > > >> 7134 Fife Rd, RR 7
> >> > > > > >> Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4
> >> > > > > >> Fax: (519)821-1530
> >> > > > > >> email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >> Bill S wrote:
> >> > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > >>> Two thoughts; ??
> >> > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > >>> With treasure chest schematics and with tips
> >> > > > > >> like Winstip, CD tech disc and
> >> > > > > >>> other things being available for us, I would
> >> > > > > >> assume that $840.00 cost per
> >> > > > > >>> year for subscription is kinda a waste....
> >> > > > > BUT
> >> > > > > >> as near as I can tell, there
> >> > > > > >>> are libraries that will listen to the public
> >> > > > > >> about those things that the
> >> > > > > >>> good ole public would like to have in their
> >> > > > > >> library. In Minnesota, if the
> >> > > > > >>> local branch did not have the right sams,
> >> > > > > then
> >> > > > > >> you could order out of the
> >> > > > > >>> main branch (Minneapolis) and it would be
> >> > > > > sent
> >> > > > > >> to you "photo copied" at no
> >> > > > > >>> cost.
> >> > > > > >>> But a new thought??????????
> >> > > > > >>> There is in the music industry a 'flat user'
> >> > > > > >> fee for music that is used in
> >> > > > > >>> the church. So if a choir or a church used a
> >> > > > > >> 'copyrighted' song, then the
> >> > > > > >>> royalties were paid a one time fee to a
> >> > > > > >> clearing house that specializes in
> >> > > > > >>> just that type of thing. There is a license
> >> > > > > >> number that is assigned to that
> >> > > > > >>> church organization for the use of that
> >> > > > > >> material.
> >> > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > >>> Nowww what would happen if "we the techs"
> >> > > > > were
> >> > > > > >> to subscribe to Techassist
> >> > > > > >>> schematic clearing house (kinda like what we
> >> > > > > do
> >> > > > > >> in support for internet fee
> >> > > > > >>> that is paid to Techassist). If I needed a
> >> > > > > CTC
> >> > > > > >> 177 print and I had paid a
> >> > > > > >>> yearly fee of $100.00 (as an example) and the
> >> > > > > >> print was either faxed or
> >> > > > > >>> emailed and the clearing house would pay a
> >> > > > > >> royalty fee to RCA and so on.
> >> > > > > >>> This would offer us an advantage at being
> >> > > > > more
> >> > > > > >> legitimate legally speaking,
> >> > > > > >>> Answers the critics of copyrights, Offer us
> >> > > > > >> better more timely resources,
> >> > > > > >>> and helps support each other in a way that
> >> > > > > may
> >> > > > > >> allow for us to answer
> >> > > > > >>> questions about problems rather than looking
> >> > > > > up
> >> > > > > >> prints and such. We could
> >> > > > > >>> even contribute to the library as it were.
> >> > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > >>> Granted there would be a lot of work. I read
> >> > > > > >> that the list is up to 800
> >> > > > > >>> plus members and say for example if 400
> >> > > > > people
> >> > > > > >> paid the $100.00 yearly fee,
> >> > > > > >>> that would be $40,000 per year to run this
> >> > > > > >> thing.
> >> > > > > >>> My two bits...
> >> > > > > >>> Bill Sorensen
> >> > > > > >>> New Life Video & Audio
> >> > > > > >>> billans@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > > >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >> > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > > >>> From: "Tel-Tek Electronics"
> >> > > > > >> <teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > > >>> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > > >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 1:23 PM
> >> > > > > >>> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sams photofact
> >> > > > > cost?
> >> > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > >>>> With all you guys unsubbing, no wonder the
> >> > > > > >> price keeps going up. But
> >> > > > > >>> that's
> >> > > > > >>>> pretty high for a monthly charge.
> >> > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > >>>> -Ed-
> >> > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > >>>> Tel-Tek Electronics
> >> > > > > >>>> Midland, Ont. Canada.
> >> > > > > >>>> teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > >>>> "Quality will be remembered, long after
> >> > > > > Price
> >> > > > > >> is forgotten"
> >> > > > > >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > > >>>> From: "al" <al@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > > >>>> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 2:29 PM
> >> > > > > >>>> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sams photofact
> >> > > > > >> cost?
> >> > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>> I unsubbed,it will take years for me to
> >> > > > > >> notice.For $70. per monthg I can
> >> > > > > >>>>> order whatever I need,price was too high.
> >> > > > > >> Comments? al
> >> > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>> alleathe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > > >>>>> Al Leatherman
> >> > > > > >>>>> Mine Hill, NJ 07803
> >> > > > > >>>>> 973-361-5796
> >> > > > > >>>>> WWW.ALS-TV.NET
> >> > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > > >>>>> From: "Dan Garris" <dgarris@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > > >>>>> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 1:18 PM
> >> > > > > >>>>> Subject: [TechAssist] Sams photofact cost?
> >> > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>>> I am a long-time Sams Photofacts
> >> > > > > >> subscriber and presently paying $70
> >> > > > > >>> per
> >> > > > > >>>>>> month for sub. UPS is $3.84. SO my
> >> > > > > >> Monthly total for my Sams sub is
> >> > > > > >>>>> $73.84
> >> > > > > >>>>>> How much are other shops here in the
> >> > > > > >> group paying? Many local shops
> >> > > > > >>> I've
> >> > > > > >>>>>> spoken to have long canceled their sub.
> >> > > > > >> Prices keep rising also on the
> >> > > > > >>>>> Sams
> >> > > > > >>>>>> sub. But I like the sub rather than the
> >> > > > > >> online method. Any comments
> >> > > > > >>> from
> >> > > > > >>>>>> other shops on the group here?
> >> > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>>> Dan Garris
> >> > > > > >>>>>> Garris TV
> >> > > > > >>>>>> 3104 Neuse Blvd.
> >> > > > > >>>>>> New Bern, NC. 28560-4116
> >> > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>>> 252-638-4477 voice
> >> > > > > >>>>>> 252-635-2772 fax
> >> > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>>> Mailto:dgarris@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> >> > > > > >>>>>> Chat with friends online, try MSN
> >> > > > > >> Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> >> > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > >> ------------------------------------------
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> >> > > > > >> --
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >> Gary McCartney
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >> McCartney Electronics
> >> > > > > >> 7134 Fife Rd, RR 7
> >> > > > > >> Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4
> >> > > > > >> Fax: (519)821-1530
> >> > > > > >> email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > > >> ------------------------------------------
> >> > > > > >> To REMOVE your email address, click here:
> >> > > > > >> http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html
> >> > > > > >> ------------------------------------------
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> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > =====
> >> > > > > > Walter Wood
> >> > > > > > Future Tech Home Center
> >> > > > > > 2786 Hwy. 43 N.
> >> > > > > > Lawrenceburg Tn. 38464
> >> > > > > > 931-829-3337
> >> > > > > > Fax 931-829-4044
> >> > > > > > mailto:wwood_38478@xxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > __________________________________________________
> >> > > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> >> > > > > > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
> >> > > > > > http://launch.yahoo.com
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> >> > > >
> >> > > > =====
> >> > > > Walter Wood
> >> > > > Future Tech Home Center
> >> > > > 2786 Hwy. 43 N.
> >> > > > Lawrenceburg Tn. 38464
> >> > > > 931-829-3337
> >> > > > Fax 931-829-4044
> >> > > > mailto:wwood_38478@xxxxxxxxx
> >> > > >
> >> > > > __________________________________________________
> >> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> >> > > > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
> >> > > > http://launch.yahoo.com
> >> > > > ------------------------------------------
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> >> > > --
> >> > > Doug Keller "Don't be afraid to go after what you
> >> > > Wis-Kel Electronics want to do and what you want to be, but
> >> > > 101 Freeland Ave. don't be afraid to be willing to pay
> >> > > Terra Alta, WV the price"
> >> > > USA 26764
> >> > > 1-304-789-3165
> >> > > dek@xxxxxxxxxx
> >> > >
> >> > > ------------------------------------------
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> >> > --
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Gary McCartney
> >> >
> >> > McCartney Electronics
> >> > 7134 Fife Rd, RR 7
> >> > Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4
> >> > Fax: (519)821-1530
> >> > email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > ------------------------------------------
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> >
> >--
> >
> >
> >
> >Gary McCartney
> >
> >McCartney Electronics
> >7134 Fife Rd, RR 7
> >Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4
> >Fax: (519)821-1530
> >email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >------------------------------------------
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