[TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have onestandard ?

From: "majorthom@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <majorthom@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 20:15:24 -0700 (PDT)
Yeah, I liked that a lot
g'night
Pete
tjanphyl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Wow. My 30 yr old antenna theory...
Usually with a multi element yagi you have an active, or driven 
element the correct wavelength (say a 1/2 wave dipole). There will be 
slightly (5%?)shorter elements in front of it called directors. The 
elements behind it, slightly longer are reflectors. These reflectors 
as the name emplies reflect the signal to active(driven)element in an 
in phase additive effect allowing for gain. They also work to reject 
unwanted signal and noise from behind the antenna. My analogy here is, 
a man cups his hand to his ear to hear someone across the room. This 
directs the man's voice to his ear as well as dampens the conversation 
behind him that was competing with the wanted voice. So, signal to 
noise ratio is a concern.
I'm tired. To bed.
;-)
Phil Bader


----- Original Message -----
From: "majorthom@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" 
Date: Sunday, June 26, 2005 8:46 pm
Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have 
onestandard ?

> I love uwave.@Ku I think of little point-source energy springy 
> things w/ these real interesting properties.ie skin effect,SWR etc.
> Didn't mean to intrude[back to ant. gain] Is it so that yagi 
> enements are different lengths to make ant more broadband,and 
> their spacing is so these signals arrive at feedpoint in phase,ie 
> additive?Regards,
> Pete
> 
> 
> Jerome Silverman wrote:
> Each element receives some signal and reflects it back to the 
> dipole, but
> eventually as you add reflectors they become less effective.
> Jerry Silverman
> Greentron Inc
> 4 Newland Ave Greenville SC 29609
> Fax/Phone 864 232 3889
> greentron@xxxxxxx
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Hoyt's TV" 
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 11:11 AM
> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have
> onestandard ?
> 
> 
> > When I was teaching at the US Army Southeastern School, we had a 
> neatlittle
> > demonstration to show antenna gain.
> >
> > We had a small transmitter set up on the bench with a receiving 
> antenna> opposite the transmitting antenna. We started with a 
> simple folded dipole
> > attached to a small light bulb. Then we added a reflector 
> element and
> keyed
> > the Xmitter again to show the increased brightness of the bulb. 
> Then we
> > added a director and a couple more directors. It was a very 
> effectivedemo.
> >
> >
> > Russ Hoyt
> > Hoyt's TV
> > Exeter, NH
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 9:25 PM
> > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have
> > onestandard ?
> >
> >
> > > Guys:
> > > "Gain" was used by antenna engineers and designers. They 
> needed some
> > > point of reference to measure and compare one antenna's 
> performance> > compared to another. These labs always used the 
> term "gain" to
> > > reference the difference between the antenna being designed 
> and their
> > > reference "dipole" antenna which is considered "unity gain". 
> (no gain)
> > > The gain numbers refer to how much more signal strength the gain
> > > antenna sends to the reciever than the reference dipole 
> antenna does
> > > connected to the same reciever from the same signal source. Any
> > > measurement has to have a reference. Frequencies in labs are 
> compared> > to the lab's reference cesium clock (atomic) so as to 
> know how far the
> > > device under test varies from the standard. You must know the 
> "knowns"> > to measure the variables.
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Damon 
> > > Date: Saturday, June 25, 2005 8:11 pm
> > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we 
> have> > onestandard ?
> > >
> > >> Yeah, I really don't know why the term is "gain" when you're not
> > >> reallygaining additional power from the "ethers".
> > >>
> > >> All I do understand is that the "Effective Antenna Power" is
> > >> affected by
> > >> the "Effective(??) Gain" of the antenna.........
> > >> Our teacher in Antenna/Microwave Cavity training used the term
> > >> "Effective"consistently when talking about Antennas, and 
> termed it
> > >> as what the antenna
> > >> "looks like" in relations to the Earth, Atmosphere, and 
recieving
> > >> equipment......
> > >>
> > >> Remember the old Startup/Shutdown public message broadcast 
> from TV
> > >> and radio
> > >> stations? They always noted the Channel and Effective Power of
> > >> that station.
> > >> I remember WOWO transmitting that "50,000" Watts message every
> > >> hour, but the
> > >> Local TV stations mostly stated their power at the end of the
> > >> transmissionday.
> > >>
> > >> Damon B
> > >> Telrad Electronics
> > >> Fort Wayne IN
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "J Silverman" 
> > >> To: 
> > >> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 12:53 PM
> > >> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will 
> we have
> > >> onestandard ?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Antennas dont really have "gain". There are only so many
> > >> microwatts that
> > >> > strike the antenna elements and they cant "suck in" any
> > >> microwatts from
> > >> the
> > >> > space around them. The antenna design determines how many 
> of those
> > >> > microwatts at a given wavelength gets converted into 
> microvolts,> > and
> > >> > determines the rejection of unwanted signals or noise at other
> > >> wavelengths> and coming from other directions. So with digital
> > >> signals, the antenna and
> > >> > its installation will be the critical component.
> > >> > Jerry Silverman
> > >> > Greentron Inc
> > >> > 4 Newland Ave
> > >> > Greenville SC 29609
> > >> > Fax/Phone 864 232 3889
> > >> > mail to: greentron@xxxxxxx
> > >> > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > From: "Damon" 
> > >> > To: 
> > >> > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 7:52 AM
> > >> > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will 
> we have
> > >> > onestandard ?
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > > Yes, you're correct....digital signals avoid 
> ghosting/multipath> >> problems,
> > >> > > and in areas where an analog signal was snowy/grainy they 
> will> > now
> > >> recieve
> > >> > a
> > >> > > perfectly clear picture, and weaker signal areas will 
recieve
> > >> broken up
> > >> > > signal information, or none at all.....
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The rated "Antenna Power" will determine how far the 
> signal is
> > >> recieved.> > The "Tranmitter Power" only determines how much 
> power> >> the the
> > >> transmitter
> > >> > > sends to the antenna......an example is that a 500kW
> > >> transmitter can
> > >> send
> > >> > > it's signal to a 6-Bay antenna and that 6-Bay antenna will
> > >> have an
> > >> > > "effective Antenna Power of (6 x 500kW) or 3MW.
> > >> > > That's what I was informed by the NBC affiliate's engineer
> > >> (Gene) back
> > >> in
> > >> > > the late '80's
> > >> > >
> > >> > > There are other things that affect Antenna power.....antenna
> > > gain,
> > >> > effective
> > >> > > height of the antenna, number of antennas......
> > >> > > Still a 440V 3 phase transmitter would require a 100 Amp
> > >> service to
> > >> drive
> > >> > a
> > >> > > setup like that.
> > >> > > And that 500kw tranmitter at 10 cents a kilowatt/hour would
> > >> cost $36,000
> > >> a
> > >> > > month.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Damon B
> > >> > > Telrad Electronics
> > >> > > Fort Wayne IN
> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > > From: "Kevin's TV Repair" 
> > >> > > To: 
> > >> > > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 1:16 AM
> > >> > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC 
> goes,will we
> > >> have> > onestandard ?
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > So do you need a stronger digital signal than analog 
signal
> > >> to give a
> > >> > > > good picture? I realize that there is a minimum signal
> > >> required to
> > >> give
> > >> > > > a picture with digital, but I always thought that one 
> of the
> > >> advantages
> > >> > > > of digital was that even a weak signal would give a 
perfect
> > >> picture;> > > whereas a similar weak analog signal would give a
> > >> grainy B/W picture.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Just like the hundredth generation copy of a digital VHS
> > >> tape will
> > >> give
> > >> > > > a perfect picture, but after only the second generation 
> copy> >> an analog
> > >> > > > VHS tape will look terrible. Does this analogy not 
> apply to
> > > the
> > >> > > > broadcast of digital vs. analog signals?
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Kevin Wilks
> > >> > > > Kevin's TV Repair
> > >> > > > Penticton BC Canada
> > >> > > > kevintv@xxxxxxx
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > > > From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> > > > [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
> Jerome> >> Silverman> > > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 8:25 PM
> > >> > > > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC 
goes,will
> > >> we have
> > >> > > > onestandard ?
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I cant think of any reason why it should, but with digital
> > >> you need a
> > >> > > > really
> > >> > > > good signal or you get no picture at all, no snow, no
> > >> ghosts, no
> > >> > > > grainyness - just no picture!
> > >> > > > Jerry Silverman
> > >> > > > Greentron Inc
> > >> > > > 4 Newland Ave Greenville SC 29609
> > >> > > > Fax/Phone 864 232 3889
> > >> > > > greentron@xxxxxxx
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > > > From: "Kevin's TV Repair" 
> > >> > > > To: 
> > >> > > > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 6:10 PM
> > >> > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC 
goes,will
> > >> we have
> > >> > > > onestandard ?
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > > Doesn't digital take a lot less power to transmit? Their
> > >> costs may
> > >> be
> > >> > > > > higher, but not much higher (unless they are in 
> California).> >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Kevin Wilks
> > >> > > > > Kevin's TV Repair
> > >> > > > > Penticton BC Canada
> > >> > > > > kevintv@xxxxxxx
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > > > > From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> > > > > [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> > >> Wayne Vanaman
> > >> > > > > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 4:51 AM
> > >> > > > > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC
> > >> goes,will we have
> > >> > > > > onestandard ?
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Did they mandate which side of the road we had to 
> drive on?
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > A conversion like this can not be drawn out. One of the
> > >> things that
> > >> > > > > surprises me is the lack of support from the TV 
stations.
> > >> Whilethey
> > >> > > > > are broadcasting digital and analog their power bills 
> have> >> to be a
> > >> lot
> > >> > > > > higher. I would think they would want to turn off one 
> of the
> > >> > > > > transmitters.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Wayne Vanaman
> > >> > > > > Omega Electronics
> > >> > > > > 6904 W Fairfield Dr
> > >> > > > > Pensacola, Fl. 32506-3310
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Wayne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> > > > > WWW.PensacolaTVRepair.Com
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > 850-456-5995 voice
> > >> > > > > 850-458-6369 fax
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Hoyt's TV wrote:
> > >> > > > > > I have no doubt it looks better and I'm all for it.
> > >> > > > > > I just don't believe it should be shoved down our
> > >> throats with a
> > >> > > > > deadline.
> > >> > > > > > Did they mandate vinyl had to go away at a 
> predetermined> >> date to
> > >> > > > > facilitate
> > >> > > > > > the change to CDs?
> > >> > > > > > I feel the market should be allowed to work by itself.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Russ Hoyt
> > >> > > > > > Hoyt's TV
> > >> > > > > > Exeter, NH
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >> -------
> > >> > > > > -----
> > >> > > > > This Email List is Public. Remove:
> > >> > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/remove.htm
> > >> > > > > Set Vacation
> > >> > > > >
> > >> mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=set%20techassist%
20vacation>
> > >> > > > Lost Password: http://www.tech-assist.org and 
select "Login
> > >> > > > Problems?".
> > >> > > > > Email Archives: 
> //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/> >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >> -------
> > >> > > > --
> > >> > > > ---
> > >> > > > > This Email List is Public. Remove:
> > >> > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/remove.htm
> > >> > > > > Set Vacation
> > >> > > > mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=set%20techassist%
> > > 20vacation
> > >> > > > > Lost Password: http://www.tech-assist.org and select 
> "Login> >> > > > Problems?".
> > >> > > > > Email Archives: 
> //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/> >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >> -------
> > >> > > > -----
> > >> > > > This Email List is Public. Remove:
> > >> http://www.tech-assist.org/remove.htm
> > >> > > > Set Vacation
> > >> > > > mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=set%20techassist%
> > > 20vacation
> > >> > > > Lost Password: http://www.tech-assist.org and 
select "Login
> > >> Problems?".
> > >> > > > Email Archives: 
> //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/> >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >> ---------
> > >> > > ---
> > >> > > > This Email List is Public. Remove:
> > >> http://www.tech-assist.org/remove.htm
> > >> > > > Set Vacation
> > >> > > 
> mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=set%20techassist%20vacation> 
> >> > > > Lost Password: http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Login
> > >> Problems?".
> > >> > > > Email Archives: 
> //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/> >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >> ---------
> > >> > ---
> > >> > > This Email List is Public. Remove: http://www.tech-
> > >> assist.org/remove.htm> > Set Vacation
> > >> > 
> mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=set%20techassist%20vacation> 
> >> > > Lost Password: http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Login
> > >> Problems?".> > Email Archives:
> > >> //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/>
> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >> ---------
> > >> ---
> > >> > This Email List is Public. Remove: http://www.tech-
> > >> assist.org/remove.htm> Set Vacation
> > >> mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=set%20techassist%20vacation
> > >> > Lost Password: http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Login
> > >> Problems?".> Email Archives:
> > >> //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >> ----------
> > >> This Email List is Public. Remove: http://www.tech-
> > >> assist.org/remove.htmSet Vacation
> > >> 
> mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=set%20techassist%
20vacationLost> > Password: http://www.tech-assist.org and 
select "Login Problems?".
> > >> Email Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> > >>
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> ---
> > > This Email List is Public. Remove: http://www.tech-
> assist.org/remove.htm> > Set Vacation
> > > mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=set%20techassist%20vacation
> > > Lost Password: http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Login 
> Problems?".> > Email Archives: 
> //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> ---
> > This Email List is Public. Remove: http://www.tech-
> assist.org/remove.htm> Set Vacation
> mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=set%20techassist%20vacation
> > Lost Password: http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Login 
> Problems?".> Email Archives: 
> //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> This Email List is Public. Remove: http://www.tech-
> assist.org/remove.htmSet Vacation 
> mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=set%20techassist%20vacationLost 
Password: http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Login Problems?".
> Email Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> 
> 
> Peter Neal
> Neal Electronics
> 1905 E. Wm.Cannon
> Austin,TX 78756
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> This Email List is Public. Remove: http://www.tech-
> assist.org/remove.htmSet Vacation 
> mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=set%20techassist%20vacationLost 
Password: http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Login Problems?".
> Email Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Email List is Public. Remove: http://www.tech-assist.org/remove.htm
Set Vacation mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=set%20techassist%20vacation
Lost Password: http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Login Problems?".
Email Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/


Peter Neal
Neal Electronics
1905 E. Wm.Cannon
Austin,TX  78756
 
 
 







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Email List is Public. Remove: http://www.tech-assist.org/remove.htm
Set Vacation mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=set%20techassist%20vacation
Lost Password: http://www.tech-assist.org  and select "Login Problems?".
Email Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
References:
- [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have onestandard ?
  - From: tjanphyl
[TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have onestandard ?

Other related posts:
