[TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have onestandard ?

  • From: "Jerome Silverman" <greentron@xxxxxxx>
  • To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 20:05:21 -0400

Each element receives some signal and reflects it back to the dipole, but
eventually as you add reflectors they become less effective.
Jerry Silverman
Greentron Inc
4 Newland Ave Greenville SC 29609
Fax/Phone 864 232 3889
greentron@xxxxxxx

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Hoyt's TV" <hoytstv@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 11:11 AM
Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have
onestandard ?


> When I was teaching at the US Army Southeastern School, we had a neat
little
> demonstration to show antenna gain.
>
> We had a small transmitter set up on the bench with a receiving antenna
> opposite the transmitting antenna. We started with a simple folded dipole
> attached to a small light bulb. Then we added a reflector element and
keyed
> the Xmitter again to show the increased brightness of the bulb. Then we
> added a director and a couple more directors. It was a very effective
demo.
>
>
> Russ Hoyt
> Hoyt's TV
> Exeter, NH
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <tjanphyl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 9:25 PM
> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have
> onestandard ?
>
>
> > Guys:
> > "Gain" was used by antenna engineers and designers. They needed some
> > point of reference to measure and compare one antenna's performance
> > compared to another. These labs always used the term "gain" to
> > reference the difference between the antenna being designed and their
> > reference "dipole" antenna which is considered "unity gain". (no gain)
> > The gain numbers refer to how much more signal strength the gain
> > antenna sends to the reciever than the reference dipole antenna does
> > connected to the same reciever from the same signal source. Any
> > measurement has to have a reference. Frequencies in labs are compared
> > to the lab's reference cesium clock (atomic) so as to know how far the
> > device under test varies from the standard. You must know the "knowns"
> > to measure the variables.
> > Phil
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Damon <DamonEB@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: Saturday, June 25, 2005 8:11 pm
> > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have
> > onestandard ?
> >
> >> Yeah, I really don't know why the term is "gain" when you're not
> >> reallygaining additional power from the "ethers".
> >>
> >> All I do understand is that the "Effective Antenna Power"  is
> >> affected by
> >> the "Effective(??) Gain" of the antenna.........
> >> Our teacher in Antenna/Microwave Cavity training used the term
> >> "Effective"consistently when talking about Antennas, and termed it
> >> as what the antenna
> >> "looks like" in relations to the Earth, Atmosphere, and recieving
> >> equipment......
> >>
> >> Remember the old Startup/Shutdown public message broadcast from TV
> >> and radio
> >> stations? They always noted the Channel and Effective Power of
> >> that station.
> >> I remember WOWO transmitting that "50,000" Watts message every
> >> hour, but the
> >> Local TV stations mostly stated their power at the end of the
> >> transmissionday.
> >>
> >> Damon B
> >> Telrad Electronics
> >> Fort Wayne IN
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "J Silverman" <greentron@xxxxxxx>
> >> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 12:53 PM
> >> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have
> >> onestandard ?
> >>
> >>
> >> > Antennas dont really have "gain". There are only so many
> >> microwatts that
> >> > strike the antenna elements and they cant "suck in" any
> >> microwatts from
> >> the
> >> > space around them. The antenna design determines how many of those
> >> > microwatts at a given wavelength gets converted into microvolts,
> > and
> >> > determines the rejection of unwanted signals or noise at other
> >> wavelengths> and coming from other directions. So with digital
> >> signals, the antenna and
> >> > its installation will be the critical component.
> >> > Jerry Silverman
> >> > Greentron Inc
> >> > 4 Newland Ave
> >> > Greenville SC 29609
> >> > Fax/Phone 864 232 3889
> >> > mail to: greentron@xxxxxxx
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Damon" <DamonEB@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 7:52 AM
> >> > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have
> >> > onestandard ?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > Yes, you're correct....digital signals avoid ghosting/multipath
> >> problems,
> >> > > and in areas where an analog signal was snowy/grainy they will
> > now
> >> recieve
> >> > a
> >> > > perfectly clear picture, and weaker signal areas will recieve
> >> broken up
> >> > > signal information, or none at all.....
> >> > >
> >> > > The rated "Antenna Power" will determine how far the signal is
> >> recieved.> > The "Tranmitter Power" only determines how much power
> >> the the
> >> transmitter
> >> > > sends to the antenna......an example is that a 500kW
> >> transmitter can
> >> send
> >> > > it's signal to a 6-Bay antenna and that 6-Bay antenna will
> >> have an
> >> > > "effective Antenna Power of (6 x 500kW) or 3MW.
> >> > > That's what I was informed by the NBC affiliate's engineer
> >> (Gene) back
> >> in
> >> > > the late '80's
> >> > >
> >> > > There are other things that affect Antenna power.....antenna
> > gain,
> >> > effective
> >> > > height of the antenna, number of antennas......
> >> > > Still a 440V 3 phase transmitter would require a 100 Amp
> >> service to
> >> drive
> >> > a
> >> > > setup like that.
> >> > > And that 500kw tranmitter at 10 cents a kilowatt/hour would
> >> cost $36,000
> >> a
> >> > > month.
> >> > >
> >> > > Damon B
> >> > > Telrad Electronics
> >> > > Fort Wayne IN
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: "Kevin's TV Repair" <kevintv@xxxxxxx>
> >> > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 1:16 AM
> >> > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we
> >> have> > onestandard ?
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > So do you need a stronger digital signal than analog signal
> >> to give a
> >> > > > good picture?  I realize that there is a minimum signal
> >> required to
> >> give
> >> > > > a picture with digital, but I always thought that one of the
> >> advantages
> >> > > > of digital was that even a weak signal would give a perfect
> >> picture;> > > whereas a similar weak analog signal would give a
> >> grainy B/W picture.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Just like the hundredth generation copy of a digital VHS
> >> tape will
> >> give
> >> > > > a perfect picture, but after only the second generation copy
> >> an analog
> >> > > > VHS tape will look terrible.  Does this analogy not apply to
> > the
> >> > > > broadcast of digital vs. analog signals?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Kevin Wilks
> >> > > > Kevin's TV Repair
> >> > > > Penticton BC Canada
> >> > > > kevintv@xxxxxxx
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > > From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jerome
> >> Silverman> > > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 8:25 PM
> >> > > > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will
> >> we have
> >> > > > onestandard ?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I cant think of any reason why it should, but with digital
> >> you need a
> >> > > > really
> >> > > > good signal or you get no picture at all, no snow, no
> >> ghosts, no
> >> > > > grainyness - just no picture!
> >> > > > Jerry Silverman
> >> > > > Greentron Inc
> >> > > > 4 Newland Ave Greenville SC 29609
> >> > > > Fax/Phone 864 232 3889
> >> > > > greentron@xxxxxxx
> >> > > >
> >> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > From: "Kevin's TV Repair" <kevintv@xxxxxxx>
> >> > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 6:10 PM
> >> > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will
> >> we have
> >> > > > onestandard ?
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > Doesn't digital take a lot less power to transmit?  Their
> >> costs may
> >> be
> >> > > > > higher, but not much higher (unless they are in California).
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Kevin Wilks
> >> > > > > Kevin's TV Repair
> >> > > > > Penticton BC Canada
> >> > > > > kevintv@xxxxxxx
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > > > From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > > [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> >> Wayne Vanaman
> >> > > > > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 4:51 AM
> >> > > > > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC
> >> goes,will we have
> >> > > > > onestandard ?
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Did they mandate which side of the road we had to drive on?
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > A conversion like this can not be drawn out.  One of the
> >> things that
> >> > > > > surprises me is the lack of support from the TV stations.
> >> Whilethey
> >> > > > > are broadcasting digital and analog their power bills have
> >> to be a
> >> lot
> >> > > > > higher.  I would think they would want to turn off one of the
> >> > > > > transmitters.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Wayne Vanaman
> >> > > > > Omega Electronics
> >> > > > > 6904 W Fairfield Dr
> >> > > > > Pensacola, Fl.  32506-3310
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Wayne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > > WWW.PensacolaTVRepair.Com
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > 850-456-5995 voice
> >> > > > > 850-458-6369 fax
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Hoyt's TV wrote:
> >> > > > > > I have no doubt it looks better and I'm all for it.
> >> > > > > > I just don't believe it should be shoved down our
> >> throats with a
> >> > > > > deadline.
> >> > > > > > Did they mandate vinyl had to go away at a predetermined
> >> date to
> >> > > > > facilitate
> >> > > > > > the change to CDs?
> >> > > > > > I feel the market should be allowed to work by itself.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Russ Hoyt
> >> > > > > > Hoyt's TV
> >> > > > > > Exeter, NH
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > >
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