[tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
- From: "w.wood" <evil.scientist.boo@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 15:19:13 -0500
Either insufficient charge in the battery or a failing solenoid would
explain that.
On Mar 26, 2012 3:31 PM, "James Dwan" <james_dwan_2000@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Cool, thanks for the detailed reply. Luckily Hammond Bros. is on the way
> to work. I'll take both of them up there in the morning. It's just odd that
> the original starter worked well enough to get me to the show but crapped
> out on my as I tried to leave. That seems to coincidental but I guess
> stranger things have happened...
>
> James
>
> DAC
> TCB
> '59 23 Window Deluxe
> '73/'77 Westfakia
> '78 Super Vert
> ------------------------------
> *From:* w.wood <evil.scientist.boo@xxxxxxxxx>
> *To:* tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2012 2:19 PM
> *Subject:* [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>
> if you took a screwdriver and shorted the lead from the battery lug on the
> starter to the spade lug from the ignition switch and got a click, you have
> one of two possible things.
>
> 1) 90% probable: The solenoid contacts at the base (inside) are worn or
> broken. The solenoid activates (pulls current and the plunger pulls back)
> incompletely. You can check this by removing the starter and taking the
> solenoid off. Using a 12V source activate the solenoid and then check for
> continuity from the battery lug to the motor lug. If there is no
> continuity the solenoid is defective. Think of this as a big coil relay,
> when field energy (from the spade lug) from the ignition switch is applied
> it becomes an electro-magnet drawing the plunger down. At the bottom there
> are contacts which bridge from the battery lug to the motor lug and at
> bottom this is where the starter gear would be extended into the bell
> housing and engaged with the flywheel. At that point with continuity the
> motor will spin.
>
> 2) or ... Bad Starter Motor. The bearings/bushings etc are worn out and
> it's now a door stop. Tapping it with a hammer can usually free up a stuck
> starter motor, that's why I suggested this method. It also works for a
> sticking solenoid as well.
>
>
> Yes it is possible to have 2 with bad solenoids because most
> remanufacturers do not change the solenoid. They test it on a bench for
> about 10 seconds and let it go. It's possible that you have worn out
> solenoids.
>
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 2:08 PM, James Dwan <james_dwan_2000@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
> So I have 2 bad solenoids on 2 different starters, or I have resistance
> between the ignition switch and my solenoid?
>
> James
>
> DAC
> TCB
> '59 23 Window Deluxe
> '73/'77 Westfakia
> '78 Super Vert
> ------------------------------
> *From:* w.wood <evil.scientist.boo@xxxxxxxxx>
> *To:* tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2012 1:46 PM
>
> *Subject:* [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>
> you want one of these then.
>
>
> http://www.smithcoelectric.com/servlet/the-465/0331302001-0331302002-0331302004-0331302005/Detail
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 1:32 PM, James Dwan <james_dwan_2000@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
> Yep that's what I call cross starting it. I tried that before I checked
> the bushing. Just sparks and a click
>
> James
>
> DAC
> TCB
> '59 23 Window Deluxe
> '73/'77 Westfakia
> '78 Super Vert
> ------------------------------
> *From:* w.wood <evil.scientist.boo@xxxxxxxxx>
> *To:* tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2012 1:13 PM
>
> *Subject:* [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>
> Have you done the screwdriver test?
>
> even with the key off, bus in neutral the starter should engage and spin.
> If it doesn't replace the solenoid on the starter.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 12:35 PM, James Dwan <james_dwan_2000@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
> I tried cross starting it. Just a click like when turning the key. So it's
> gotta be electrical since it happens with both starters
>
> James
>
> DAC
> TCB
> '59 23 Window Deluxe
> '73/'77 Westfakia
> '78 Super Vert
> ------------------------------
> *From:* w.wood <evil.scientist.boo@xxxxxxxxx>
> *To:* tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2012 12:25 PM
>
> *Subject:* [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>
> Well, Rancho would know best however I do know that later bug transaxles
> became much cheaper in their construction for example, the single side
> cover (not suitable for a bus with redux boxes) and the reverse gear
> retainer being only held in by a pin where the previous versions were
> caged. All of this goes to how reliable the box is. VW did lots of crazy
> stuff and mixed and matched parts depending upon availability too. But
> I've never heard of a transaxle vw made without a bushing, maybe in the
> 40s? I dunno but Rancho would know best. Actually I trusted a guy name
> Don Strong who ran "Der Transaxle" in cali for years but he's long since
> departed this mortal coil.
>
> Ever have a late model bug that wouldn't shift into reverse? I did
> )(*!@#)(*!@# Pins!!!!
>
> Now insofar as bushings are concerned, If you want to maintain the use of
> stock bushings you can take any transaxle and fix the problem you're
> having, one year or not. All it takes is a reamer and the right size
> bushing ... ;-) Don't have a right size bushing? Get friends with
> lathes... aka "My Dad's a TV repairman he has a bitchen set of tools."
>
> Anyway, if the bushing is holding in and you greased the shaft prior to
> installation, the problem isn't the bushing it's an electrical problem and
> if you're not too afraid to do it you can always use a remote starter
> switch (autozoo) or use the old screwdriver method and short the + lead
> from the battery to the spade lug contact. You'll get a spark or two so
> wear eye protection or close your eyes. If that works, your problem is
> lack of current so go with the relay (extra solenoid switch)
>
> Also try the hammer method.. hit the solenoid on the starter with a hammer
> lightly and then try. If it starts then the solenoid is failing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 12:11 PM, James Dwan <james_dwan_2000@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
> Don't get me lying. All I know is it has a 12v bushing size hole in the
> bell housing, but if I remember correctly it is all one unit. Not removable
> like my late model Bus tranny.
>
> If I remember correctly, someone at Rancho told me that only 1967 was a
> 12v and earlier ones were 6v? this was 2 years ago, but the jist was of all
> the big nut trannys there was only one year when they made the hole this
> size. Wanna buy it? : )
>
> James
>
> DAC
> TCB
> '59 23 Window Deluxe
> '73/'77 Westfakia
> '78 Super Vert
> ------------------------------
> *From:* w.wood <evil.scientist.boo@xxxxxxxxx>
> *To:* tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2012 12:03 PM
>
> *Subject:* [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>
> One year only 12V tranny? Would this be a late model bug center section?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 11:38 AM, James Dwan <james_dwan_2000@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
> I assume the flywheel is 12v since it is a one year only 12v tranny, hence
> my extreme irritation withn one individual in Ennis...
>
> James
>
> DAC
> TCB
> '59 23 Window Deluxe
> '73/'77 Westfakia
> '78 Super Vert
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Denis <coocoo@xxxxxxx>
> *To:* tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2012 11:29 AM
>
> *Subject:* [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>
> Change 6V stuff to 12V. OK, vintage. Got it. you might still want to
> look into a starter for an automatic. But wait. Do you still have a 6V
> flywheel? Never mind. I don’t think I could keep a true vintage bus on the
> road.
>
>
> *From:* James Dwan <james_dwan_2000@xxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2012 11:25 AM
> *To:* tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>
> I want to keep the Bus a stock as possible so I went 6v. Change out what?
>
> James
>
> DAC
> TCB
> '59 23 Window Deluxe
> '73/'77 Westfakia
> '78 Super Vert
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Denis <coocoo@xxxxxxx>
> *To:* tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2012 11:08 AM
> *Subject:* [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>
> Why not 12V? Do you not have to change out with 8V?
>
> *From:* James Dwan <james_dwan_2000@xxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2012 10:59 AM
> *To:* tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>
> I agree. I was having trouble starting it when I first got it (it was
> the bushing) so I opted for an 8V. The 8v battery has more cranking amps
> and I want my lights to be as bright as possible.
>
> James
>
> DAC
> TCB
> '59 23 Window Deluxe
> '73/'77 Westfakia
> '78 Super Vert
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Denis <coocoo@xxxxxxx>
> *To:* tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2012 10:54 AM
> *Subject:* [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>
>
> Well, I’ll put this out there, although I don’t know if it applies. I was
> dealing with the whole starter bushing thing until someone told me to use a
> starter for an automatic transmission. I fits and works and does not need a
> bushing. I think your problem sounds completely electrical, since you say
> that your starter won’t spin. My two cents.
>
>
> Oh, and why an 8V battery? I never even heard of that.
>
>
>
>
> *From:* James Dwan <james_dwan_2000@xxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2012 10:01 AM
> *To:* tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>
> '59
>
> James
>
> DAC
> TCB
> '59 23 Window Deluxe
> '73/'77 Westfakia
> '78 Super Vert
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Denis <coocoo@xxxxxxx>
> *To:* tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2012 8:24 AM
> *Subject:* [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>
> What year is your 23?
>
>
>
> *From:* James Dwan <james_dwan_2000@xxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2012 8:11 AM
> *To:* tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [tcb] I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>
> It started last weekend and has now gotten worse. I had to get push
> started out of a tire shop on Saturday and
> I thought I'd had it fixed yesterday but had to get push started out of a
> show.
>
> The starter won't turn. I removed the starter and figured the bushing was
> the problem again. The bushing came out with the starter. I put another one
> in and still nothing, I put in the old starter and after 5 attempts is
> started fine. Now nothing. Robb has suggested soldering the ends of the
> wires to get a good contact through the screw terminals on the ignition
> switch and headlight switch. I'm gonna try that tonight.
>
> I am wondering if it is possible the 8v battery is wreaking havoc with the
> 6v switches? Has anyone had a bushing come out with the starter? I never
> had and am concerned about that as well.
> James
>
> DAC
> TCB
> '59 23 Window Deluxe
> '73/'77 Westfakia
> '78 Super Vert
> ------------------------------
>
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> http://www.findinternettv.com/Video,item,1570570433.aspx
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