[tcb] Re: Anyone ever heard or seen this before? is it snakeoil ?
- From: Brian Denning <i_am_cool_fred@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:28:31 -0600
you know, i was thinking about you the last time i changed my oil, Will. When i
changed it it had maybe 5k on it and it was the same color comming out as it
was when i poured it in...that true full flow setup is awesome i love it and it
saves my bus because there is an extra half quart of oil running through the
lines so if i am low i won't burn the motor up.
i've put some thought into running an external cooler but i am thinking that is
overkill because the dog house seems to do the trick and i dont want to over
cool the oil...especially if i get to drive it any this winter.
just rambling really...back to you mark
> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:20:21 -0600
> From: evilscientistboo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [tcb] Re: Anyone ever heard or seen this before? is it snakeoil ?
>
> Flash point is the lowest temperature point at which a flammable liquid will
> burn, not that it burns necessarily hotter.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_point
>
> Lead is banned as a fuel additive.. So Lucas, nor Marvel could be selling
> this .. http://www.epa.gov/EPA-AIR/1996/February/Day-02/pr-1326.html
>
> As for the cleaning action, that's the Mystery... "ho dey do dat?"
>
> I use Castrol Syntec... And I'm starting to use Royal Purple now.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: j duncan <whocanduncan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Sent: Nov 28, 2007 1:35 PM
> >To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: [tcb] Re: Anyone ever heard or seen this before? is it snakeoil ?
> >
> >
> >Great discussion, though! Okay,Oil has a higher flash point, which means it
> >burns hotter. Isn't that how it "cleans" the carbon (points #1 and #2). .
> >.by burning it off? So wouldn't a hotter combustion null points #4 and #5?
> >And doesn't Lucas have a small amount of lead in it?BTW: I use Castrol oil.
> >It contains no paraffin. ;)Peace-out!Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:43:17
> >-0600From: evilscientistboo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [tcb]
> >Re: Anyone ever heard or seen this before? is it snakeoil ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Okay... This is one of those VW discussions starting like "what engine oil
> >do I use... " LOL
> >If we talk "Marvel Mystery Oil" and like additvies they do a few things that
> >are proven out:
> >1) The remove gum/varnish and carbon buildup and lubricate your fuel system
> >components. This means, carb jets, passages in the carb, intake manifold
> >etc. that it goes through. Carbon in the combustion chamber and on the
> >valves introduces turbulent airflow and more heat on the components...
> >Carbon on the valves means the valve has a harder time disappating the heat
> >through the carbon.
> >2) You can use Marvel in the Tank or In an injection system like the Oiler
> >bottle you see. Either way (repeat either way) you'd get the same results
> >except you wouldn't have Marvel in your carbuerator/fuel delivery system
> >except from the manifold down just using the Oiler. IMO that's one of the
> >main benefits because it cleans out the fuel system however the
> >ratio/mixture is governed by your fuel consumption, not by a settable amount
> >via the Injection Oiler.
> >3) I use Lucas Fuel Additive in everything (even the ones with the Judson's)
> >because it works for me and I have seen improvements on teardowns,
> >performance and mileage. YMMV.
> >4) The flash point of Marvel and Lucas is higher than gasoline so there is
> >some residual effects on the combustion chamber, exhaust valve/guide and
> >port.
> >5) The use of the oiler depending on how much you inject will cool the
> >intake charge. Cooler air in = less heat produced and more power from a
> >denser air charge to the engine. You'd have to turn it up a lot to see a
> >huge benefit in cooling here.
> >6) The Oilers are necessary on Judson, Rotax style superchargers to
> >lubricate the vanes and bearings.
> >7) The issues around #3 *were* applicable with overloaded and overstressed
> >engines with inline coolers. Hence the Doghouse Cooler introduced in 1971.
> >Even so, the inline cooler did not (ever) put hot air from the oil cooler
> >over the head, it exited over the cylinders.. Heat is in the heads, power is
> >in the heads. Millions of ACVW inline oil cooler engines were built and
> >they lasted within their service lives.. 60,000 miles... ;-) In my 30 years
> >of "tinkering" with dubs, I've seen valve failures on all cylinders, intake
> >and exhaust and seats go everywhere, not just #3.
> >8) Porsches and Type IVs received Sodium Exhaust Valves which disappated the
> >heat better and prevented most of the failures encountered with the classic
> >VW exhaust valve kablooie. Typical of a Sodium and "normal" valve is to
> >also have it break below the triple keeper grooves. As a comparison, Big
> >Valve heads (using Chevy Valves) use single groove keepers which allow the
> >valve stem end to be stronger.
> >Now, for the Water Injection fans... Water Injection also decarbonizes and
> >cools the intake charge but doesn't provide any lubrication benefits.
> >As a side note, if you read the Hot VWs series on the "Mileage Engine"
> >you'll notice the exhaust valves used have fatter stems because of (in
> >roughly their words) "The Fuel Injection System would tend to lean the
> >engine out." These are 9mm AFAIR. These are nearly the same size as 11/32"
> >Chevy style valves (single keeper) that a lot of the big dollar heads
> >use.Net Net, for me, it's Lucas in the tank and no oilers except in the
> >Judsons... Then it's Marvel in the bottle and Lucas in the tank.
> >
> >-----Original Message----- From: j duncan Sent: Nov 28, 2007 11:28 AM To:
> >tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [tcb] Re: Anyone ever heard or seen this before?
> >is it snakeoil ?
> >
> >Since oil is nearly as flammable as gas, wouldn't its lubricating properties
> >just go up in smoke when mixed with the air/fuel intake?? Lead, with its
> >higher combustion point, is the missing lubricant in today's fuel. There's
> >certainly a lot of debate over Marvel Mystery Oil and other additives.
> >Although my memory doesn't go back as far as when Jack was a teenager, I
> >agree with him. They can't do much harm so long as you don't over do it.
> >
> >
> >To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [tcb] Re: Anyone ever heard or seen this
> >before? is it snakeoil ?Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:59:42 -0500From:
> >jki7886155@xxxxxxx
> >These oilers have been around since before I was a teenager. In my opinion,
> >they can't hurt anything but, do they reduce maintenance?, I have never seen
> >any proof, pro or con. My friend put one on his mother's '50 Plymouth which
> >(once in a while) we used to spike with some either that his brother would
> >bring home from Medical School. It sure would would make that old "flat head
> >6" fly!Jack Kirsch
> >So what is the answer from the more experienced (I wasn't going to say
> >older) VWers about whether the oiler is a good idea or not??? sammie smith
> ><bugcollections@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >In some cases tight is good but not in VW valve adjustment.Brian Denning
> ><i_am_cool_fred@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >everytime i run my valves i notice hardley any difference in the feeler
> >gauge from what they were set on...perhaps this is because i do it about
> >once a month (600 miles tops). i was a bit concerned with that untill i was
> >told that is a good thing that a tight valve is the no bueno type situation
> >
> >
> >Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:19:25 -0800From:
> >bugcollections@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [tcb] Re: Anyone ever heard or seen
> >this before? is it snakeoil ?To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Where there are engineers there are always lots of opinions. Both Steve and
> >Denis should be able to speak with experience on trashed valves.
> >
> >Will's right about watching the adjustment; and if one keeps getting tight
> >on you it's a darn good idea to pull the head before catastrophe happens. I
> >used to have a VW powered airplane (Evans VP-1) and after every 50 or so
> >hours of flying time I would yank the heads and replace all exhaust
> >valves.Will Wood <evilscientistboo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >The kit is similar to the Marvel oiler. The Marvel oiler in my opinionhas
> >better control but top end cylinder lubrication is always a goodthing. Water
> >injection will also give you similar results but it's moredifficult to
> >control.It definitely helps a Judson Engine stay alive but I don't know if
> >Iagree about all of the other statements they make in their ad.>> Exhaust
> >valve seat recession can result, a >> condition where valve and seat
> >materials adhere to and erode each>> other, with the valve migrating up >>
> >into the head.If you severly overheat the engine or have crappy heads or
> >valve workdone this can also happen which is more common. Running the
> >enginelean, bad timing or heavy loads all contribute to the heat issue.
> >The10% Ethanol in Gas doesn't help either since it leans out the mixture.>>
> >As this occurs, valve stem to rocker tip clearance is reduced. If>> this
> >clearance reduces >> to zero, the valve no longer closes, resulting in a
> >burned valve. That's why you adjust your valves... Valves have more of a
> >tendancy tostretch from fatigue. Any time you have a valve "tighten up" it
> >is acause for concern since normally the clearance should stay relativelythe
> >same.If you run moly pushrods you should run them "loose zero" since
> >theengine expands as it warms up. Steel doesn't expand like aluminum
> >does.Any valve failure can occur if the parts are questionable. Like
> >reusingexhaust valves which result in the most damaging catastrophies. Even
> >ifyou have great parts it can happen. I lost a seat in a set of CB
> >StreetEliminators after 1200 miles on the engine. I also know of
> >anotherperson who had two valve guides come loose and the seating area
> >crackedaround the guides on a brand new set of CB heads after 900 miles on
> >theheads. This isn't inexpensive stuff either... My rule of thumb on a
> >street engine is every 35-40K miles the heads comeoff and the exhaust valves
> >are replaced along with a valve job.On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 02:46 -0600, Trey
> >Jung wrote:> > http://www.ampcolubes.com./vw.html> > > There's an ad on
> >thesamba.com too .......... Just wondering....> > Trey> >
> >
> >You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i’m
> >Initiative now. Join in!
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----From: Mark Sawyer <mechmark@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>To:
> >tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:29 amSubject: [tcb] Re: Anyone
> >ever heard or seen this before? is it snakeoil ?
> >So what is the answer from the more experienced (I wasn't going to say
> >older) VWers about whether the oiler is a good idea or not??? sammie smith
> ><bugcollections@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >In some cases tight is good but not in VW valve adjustment.Brian Denning
> ><i_am_cool_fred@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >
> >everytime i run my valves i notice hardley any difference in the feeler
> >gauge from what they were set on...perhaps this is because i do it about
> >once a month (600 miles tops). i was a bit concerned with that untill i was
> >told that is a good thing that a tight valve is the no bueno type situation
> >
> >
> >Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:19:25 -0800From:
> >bugcollections@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [tcb] Re: Anyone ever heard or seen
> >this before? is it snakeoil ?To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Where there are engineers there are always lots of opinions. Both Steve and
> >Denis should be able to speak with experience on trashed valves.
> >
> >Will's right about watching the adjustment; and if one keeps getting tight
> >on you it's a darn good idea to pull the head before catastrophe happens. I
> >used to have a VW powered airplane (Evans VP-1) and after every 50 or so
> >hours of flying time I would yank the heads and replace all exhaust
> >valves.Will Wood <evilscientistboo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >The kit is similar to the Marvel oiler. The Marvel oiler in my opinionhas
> >better control but top end cylinder lubrication is always a goodthing. Water
> >injection will also give you similar results but it's moredifficult to
> >control.It definitely helps a Judson Engine stay alive but I don't know if
> >Iagree about all of the other statements they make in their ad.>> Exhaust
> >valve seat recession can result, a >> condition where valve and seat
> >materials adhere to and erode each>> other, with the valve migrating up >>
> >into the head.If you severly overheat the engine or have crappy heads or
> >valve workdone this can also happen which is more common. Running the
> >enginelean, bad timing or heavy loads all contribute to the heat issue.
> >The10% Ethanol in Gas doesn't help either since it leans out the mixture.>>
> >As this occurs, valve stem to rocker tip clearance is reduced. If>> this
> >clearance reduces >> to zero, the valve no longer closes, resulting in a
> >burned valve. That's why you adjust your valves... Valves have more of a
> >tendancy tostretch from fatigue. Any time you have a valve "tighten up" it
> >is acause for concern since normally the clearance should stay relativelythe
> >same.If you run moly pushrods you should run them "loose zero" since
> >theengine expands as it warms up. Steel doesn't expand like aluminum
> >does.Any valve failure can occur if the parts are questionable. Like
> >reusingexhaust valves which result in the most damaging catastrophies. Even
> >ifyou have great parts it can happen. I lost a seat in a set of CB
> >StreetEliminators after 1200 miles on the engine. I also know of
> >anotherperson who had two valve guides come loose and the seating area
> >crackedaround the guides on a brand new set of CB heads after 900 miles on
> >theheads. This isn't inexpensive stuff either... My rule of thumb on a
> >street engine is every 35-40K miles the heads comeoff and the exhaust valves
> >are replaced along with a valve job.On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 02:46 -0600, Trey
> >Jung wrote:> > http://www.ampcolubes.com./vw.html> > > There's an ad on
> >thesamba.com too .......... Just wondering....> > Trey> >
> >
> >You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i’m
> >Initiative now. Join in!
> >
> >
> >More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
> >
> >You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i’m
> >Initiative now. Join in!
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE!
> >http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_112007
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE!
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_112007
Other related posts:
