Exactly my point Neil. Ask a blind person living in a third world country
with no clean water, not enough food, no shelter and war raging all around
them if they "Need" A screen reader.
An exaggerated comparison granted before you say that, but perhaps it will
put all this moaning and whinging into perspective.
As for me, I'm bored with this stupid thread now which is just repetative
and we've been over and over it countless times before.
Find me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/barkingbabs
Barbara Wilson
M: 07917710779
T: 02887784046
E: barkingbabs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
IM: creativeeyes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Skype: creativeeyes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Barnfather - TalkNav" <talks@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 2:49 PM
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: [talks-up] Re: FW: Re: Any more news...
Darren,
A blind person can choose not to have a screen reader, we did it before
they
existed, and more than that sighted people can likewise choose not to have
cars.
---Neil Barnfather
TalkNav
TalkNav is a Nuance Accessibility software reseller and authorized
distributor of Wayfinder products, with product activation codes delivered
direct to your mailbox, why not try TalkNav today?
www.talknav.com
www.wayfinderaccess.com
Telephone from the UK: 0844 412 1062
Telephone outside the UK: +44 161 277 7997
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Darren Harris
Sent: 27 September 2009 14:40
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: [talks-up] Re: FW: Re: Any more news...
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Neil Barnfather -
TalkNav
Sent: 27 September 2009 14:30
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: [talks-up] Re: FW: Re: Any more news...
Darren,
For someone who studied economics and business finance you seem to have
a lack of understanding of it;
All products have a cost of development, then a cost to bring them to
market, add to which dealer margins etc, most products are made up on
one of two models;
One third materials, one third labour and the other third profit.
Is that a 0 on each third?
Or
Costs of goods times 4 which accounts for sub-dealers, primary dealers
or distribution channels, marketing etc.
So then it boils down to how much the dealers will charge for their
services doesn't it.
I ask you this how much profit is too much? £50, £20, £1000? Where do we
draw the line, how much does someone make on a Mercedes? How much does
someone make on a casio watch?
The point is that there's tons of cars people can buy out there. Also
you can choose not to have a car. A blind person cannot choose not to
have a screen reader. Poor argument.
Let me tell you, the profit on a Mercedes is 6% yet the profit on a
Casio watch is about 24%, this was from figures in the economist last
year, now if I'd have asked you which was the biggest rip off, you'd
have said the car, yet clearly not so.
So how much profit if you know all the answers is too much for FS to
have.
Just because GW can afford to give credit what inside knowledge of FS
accounts and practices do you have which enables you to state that they
can for sure offer credit? That's right, you have no idea as to whether
or not FS are able to offer it, maybe they don't have the funds in the
bank, maybe they do, maybe their share holders won't allow it, maybe
their morally bankrupt, maybe just GW is desperate for the business so
they'll do anything for it. Who knows.
Well if they're that bad off and need the business they've certainly
found a good way of getting it don't you think?
All I'm trying to do here is stimulate the debate a little rather than
FS bash...
You seem to far too easily be merging the distinction between a charity
status, and a company here to make a profit. No-one's said FS doesn't
necessarily make a big profit, but so do very many companies, your
Father works for Indisit, an essential product the humble washing
machine, how much profit do they make per unit? No doubt the CEO of
Indisit doesn't travel about in a Scoda, and I don't see you bitching
about that.
Again the point is, that there's various type of machine out there that
you can get. Ranging from £200 upwards. Is it that wide ranging with
screen readers? No.
FS nor any of the access companies are here for our benefit, they're
here as this is a market opportunity for them.
No, they are here to serve. They are tools for us to make use of.
Nothing more or less. If they don't serve then they go. It's as simple
as that.
You can either buy their stuff or not, but for goodness sake shut up
about the fact that you don't like the way they do things, we all get
it, Darren doesn't like FS, he thinks KNFB Reader is overpriced, but to
be honest, that's just your view, and perhaps the majorities view, but
it's not compulsory for you to buy from them is it?
No, but it's a fact that cannot be denied whether you like it or not.
There are thank goodness choices out there.
Are there? Do we choose not to have a screen reader? No. so what
happens. A high price is slapped on the obvious solution. Sorry but
again the argument is flawed.
Just like in practically all markets, choice exists and the market
dictates, get off your soap box on this list about it please.
No.
---Neil Barnfather
TalkNav
TalkNav is a Nuance Accessibility software reseller and authorized
distributor of Wayfinder products, with product activation codes
delivered direct to your mailbox, why not try TalkNav today?
www.talknav.com
www.wayfinderaccess.com
Telephone from the UK: 0844 412 1062
Telephone outside the UK: +44 161 277 7997
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Darren Harris
Sent: 27 September 2009 12:31
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: FW: Re: Any more news...
Well in this case we are I'm afraid to say. I've said it before, I'll
say it again. If the companies in question reduced their prices or even
gave more affordable options for people to pay then more people would
pay for said products. It's only their own stupidity that keeps the
market small. There's tons of people out there who may want a jaws
payment plan but does it exist? No. so where do they go, to gw micro.
And why is this, because the fools at freedom scientific only see what's
coming in now not what will come in if they made their products more
affordable to their customer base both currant and future. It's simple
mathematics. If you can't afford 800 quid in 1 hit but can pay another
company who produces and equivalent product at the same price 80 quid
for 10 months not including interest what is that person more likely to
go for? Assuming they're willing to pay that extra amount of interest on
top. The point is that the option isn't there. If it was, then I think
you'd find less people wining and bitching about it because it could be
more affordable. Again, we're right, everybody else is wrong.
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Neil Barnfather -
TalkNav
Sent: 27 September 2009 12:23
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: FW: Re: Any more news...
And just why is that, just because more are for than against, doesn't
mean that the majority are right.
---Neil Barnfather
TalkNav
TalkNav is a Nuance Accessibility software reseller and authorized
distributor of Wayfinder products, with product activation codes
delivered direct to your mailbox, why not try TalkNav today?
www.talknav.com
www.wayfinderaccess.com
Telephone from the UK: 0844 412 1062
Telephone outside the UK: +44 161 277 7997
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Darren Harris
Sent: 27 September 2009 12:19
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: FW: Re: Any more news...
So? The majority of people don't have to spend 700 quid plus just to
make a computer work for them so it balances out IMO. Yes if you got a
job that's totally cool and all that and power to anybody that has. But
even for those in employment it's still expensive, prohibitibely so.
Sorry neil but this is an argument you just aren't going to win here.
There are more against this than are for it whether people like it or
not.
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Neil Barnfather -
TalkNav
Sent: 27 September 2009 12:14
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: FW: Re: Any more news...
Low incomes, do you know with DLA< SDA, Income support, housing benefit
and council tax relief that the equivalents salary to a tax payer is
more or less like £20,000 per year and if not more...
Get over yourself.
---Neil Barnfather
TalkNav
TalkNav is a Nuance Accessibility software reseller and authorized
distributor of Wayfinder products, with product activation codes
delivered direct to your mailbox, why not try TalkNav today?
www.talknav.com
www.wayfinderaccess.com
Telephone from the UK: 0844 412 1062
Telephone outside the UK: +44 161 277 7997
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Matt Brown
Sent: 27 September 2009 11:56
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: FW: Re: Any more news...
Problem is Freedom scientific wants all its money and it wants it now!
got
to keep paying those fuel bills and green taxes on the private jet don't
you
know?
I do think its disgusting that these companies won't even offer a
payment
plan so blind people on low incomes can spread payment, but as far as I
know
GW Micro is the only company that offers something like that.
Freedom Scientific never have that's for sure.
I don't know if the situation has changed, but in point of fact, I think
we
here in Britain pay a huge amount more for Jaws than Americans do, and
that's also disgusting!
Matt
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Darren Harris" <darren_g_harris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 11:30 AM
To: <talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: FW: Re: Any more news...
Neil,
Gw micro offer very successfully I might add a payment plan for
windoweyes. What they do is every 30 days you renew the licence of
windoweyes for what ever the amount is I have no idea, so it breaks
the cost down for the individual.
It can be done.
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Neil Barnfather -
TalkNav
Sent: 27 September 2009 11:22
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: FW: Re: Any more news...
Darren,
Perhaps there marketing point is to keep exclusivity? You're assuming
they want to sell it...
Just another slant, you seem to forget just how much research and
development actually costs.
When you're developing and researching, but you're going to sell your
en product to millions, then it's likely your end price is lower, when
you're selling to small r groups then your price is higher.
Gosh I thought you did economics, prices for accessibility technology
is high, higher than I'd like, but do you want access companies to
magic research and development which costs millions out of fin air?
---Neil Barnfather
TalkNav
TalkNav is a Nuance Accessibility software reseller and authorized
distributor of Wayfinder products, with product activation codes
delivered direct to your mailbox, why not try TalkNav today?
www.talknav.com
www.wayfinderaccess.com
Telephone from the UK: 0844 412 1062
Telephone outside the UK: +44 161 277 7997
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Darren Harris
Sent: 25 September 2009 20:38
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: FW: Re: Any more news...
It's simple logic. If you can't afford it because the kids come first
then so be it. It wouldn't be as bad if like gw micro they offered a
payment plan. They don't. unless you get the n82 and talks as a bundle
but if you already got a phone then why go down that road so where's
the flexibility in that? Sorry but 600 quid is way too much for the
majority of people to shell out on and it's stupid to expect a ton of
people to buy it.
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Dryden
Sent: 25 September 2009 20:33
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: FW: Re: Any more news...
My god, what an archaic attitude! With that, we'd all be in the
ghettos! I mean, before we had computers with speech, we had manual
typewriters, blind people did ok then as well! In fact, what's the
point of progression anyway? Haha, not starting an argument, just
putting my point over!
To
be
honest, yes, KNF is a bit expensive but as with most of this type of
technology, it's all expensive because of the R & D. And, sorry, you
just can't get away from it.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darren Harris" <darren_g_harris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 7:01 PM
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: FW: Re: Any more news...
Well like I've said before, take a family of 4, 1 or both parents are
blind and both have phones. So who goes without if they can either
afford ecentials for the kids or a little programme which is at a
ripoff price and quite a few people in prominent potisions just
wouldn't recommend it for the price. It's way to much money for what
it is. I mean what's the hastle in taking something to your desktop
scanner and getting it to read that? Ok it may not be able to do tins
and the like bla bla bla but being honest blind people have coped
without that for years so why worry about it now
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of DurDevil
Sent: 25 September 2009 18:01
To: Talks-Uk Email group
Subject: [talks-uk] FW: Re: Any more news...
Hi neil. I agree that we dont want to start a arguement but if it was
slightly more affordable then it would reach more customers and now
the main idea has been developed it surely could come down in price.
Jaws for a pc is expensive and Talks for mobiles puts similar
functionality into peoples pockets but if Nuance expected pricing
like
FS it would not reach as many people. These programs are worth their
weight to blind people but just think of how many peoples lives could
be improved if it was all more affordable. Cheers. Pete
-original message-
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Any more news...
From: "Neil Barnfather - TalkNav" <talks@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 25/09/2009 5:47 pm
Darren,
KNFB Mobile Reader is I'm afraid well worth the price, I don't want
to
get into a shouting match about this, but when you consider the cost
of Kertzvil standard PC software and a scanner, verse that of a phone
which can go with you anywhere and read odd shaped products it's well
worth every penny.
---Neil Barnfather
TalkNav
TalkNav is a Nuance Accessibility software reseller and authorized
distributor of Wayfinder products, with product activation codes
delivered direct to your mailbox, why not try TalkNav today?
www.talknav.com
www.wayfinderaccess.com
Telephone from the UK: 0844 412 1062
Telephone outside the UK: +44 161 277 7997
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Darren Harris
Sent: 25 September 2009 16:17
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Any more news...
Lol with 3 letters gone are they going to reduce the price as well to
make it worth buying?
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jackie Cairns
Sent: 25 September 2009 16:16
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Any more news...
Hi Neil
K-Reader is now known officially as the software that used to be
called K-NFB Reader, least that's my understanding.
Jackie Cairns
Braille Specialist
Email: jackie.cairns@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sight and Sound Technology Ltd
Welton House North Wing
Summerhouse Road
Moulton Park
Northampton
NN3 6WD
Tel: 01604 798024
Mob: 07887 883815
www.sightandsound.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Neil Barnfather -
TalkNav
Sent: 25 September 2009 14:07
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Any more news...
Jackie,
Do you mean K Reader or KNFB Reader, they are two different products?
---Neil Barnfather
TalkNav
TalkNav is a Nuance Accessibility software reseller and authorized
distributor of Wayfinder products, with product activation codes
delivered direct to your mailbox, why not try TalkNav today?
www.talknav.com
www.wayfinderaccess.com
Telephone from the UK: 0844 412 1062
Telephone outside the UK: +44 161 277 7997
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jackie Cairns
Sent: 25 September 2009 13:39
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Any more news...
Hi Steve
I now have the K-Reader on my N86, and will run it alongside my work
N82 at the weekend for a comparison. I love the N86's chunky feel,
and the buttons are so much more tactile all round than the N82.
Often, customers struggle with the Talks/Menu button on the N82, and
the soft key positions. They shouldn't experience the same issues
with the N86 as the buttons are so nicely spaced out.
I've tried the FM transmitter, and this works a treat if you keep the
phone fairly close to the radio or system you are putting it through.
I'm looking forward to spending more time with it and the N82 this
weekend.
Jackie Cairns
Braille Specialist
Email: jackie.cairns@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sight and Sound Technology
Ltd Welton House North Wing Summerhouse Road Moulton Park Northampton
NN3 6WD
Tel: 01604 798024
Mob: 07887 883815
www.sightandsound.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 25 September 2009 11:48
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Any more news...
Hi Jackie,
The processor is faster in the N86 than either phone, the camera is
obviously better, and if you have tried KNFB Reader on it, you would
see that it is miles faster than the N82.
It is a little heavy in my view, but the butoons on it are just as
nice as the N82, if not a bit wider.
An all-round good phone, and the battery life is even better than the
N82 in my experience.
The N79 is pretty good, but it doesn't have the 8MP camera which
helps
KNFB, and KNFB won't let you run it on the N79, I think they are just
being paranoid and will have to do something soon, because TextScout
is excellent on it.
All the best
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jackie Cairns
Sent: Friday 25 September 2009 11:45
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Any more news...
Hi Steve
So you've got the N86? What do you love about it, and how do you
think it compares to the N82 and N79? Really interested in what you
have to say.
Jackie Cairns
Braille Specialist
Email: jackie.cairns@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sight and Sound Technology
Ltd Welton House North Wing Summerhouse Road Moulton Park Northampton
NN3 6WD
Tel: 01604 798024
Mob: 07887 883815
www.sightandsound.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 25 September 2009 11:20
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Any more news...
Hi Matt,
No news yet. But I love my N86.
All the best
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Matt Brown
Sent: Friday 25 September 2009 11:08
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Any more news...
Hi, is there any more news about N97 and Talks? I'm getting to a
point
where
I really have to make a decision, N86 or N97! I don't want to be
lumbered with an N97 if speech is months and months away if it comes
at all, but of the 2 handsets it has the feature set I'm looking for!
Apart from the 8 MP camera the N86 doesn't look a whole lot more
powerful than the N82 in reality, whereas the N97 is massivo!
Matt
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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
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