Hi Pete. Again, you leave me with very little to add which is no bad thing as you have covered everything I would have said. The protest site was always about general GPS access as we knew quite early on that it would be unlikely that Vodafone would want to keep WFA alive. They are in a position where they have to do something as they can't be seen to be dropping blind people in the watsit... And rightly so in my opinion. I think the likes of Nokia and Google must build accessibility into their GPS offerings and lobbying them if necessary is, again, no bad thing. I would like people to stop thinking that there is an ulterior motive when a few, initially, stand up to make their voices heard. I think now is the time for a few key people, who can test products reliably and fairly; think of what kind of access would be neede for the majority and offer their skills and input to Programmers and the like. I have to say, I don't think I'm one of them but, I will shout from the rooftops for those people to have their opportunity. Anyway, I'm in danger of being off on one again so, glad that we find agreement and thanks for the links and the words. Paul -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of DurDevil Sent: 23 March 2010 14:23 To: Talks-Uk Email group Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Nokia Ovi Maps3.3 full interface description Hi Paul Yes interesting comments from Neil, good to see Voda "may" finally be doing the decent thing to help those current users as this is the biggest issue at present, Neil and the protest team are doing a great job in fighting this cause for all the users so hopefully we can all help our little bit by spreading the word of the protest petition and raise awareness. hopefully we will then have some alternatives step up to the mobile phone GPS void that WFA will be leaving behind and the raised awareness as a result of the WFA demise publicity will show GPS developers that accessibility support is important. I'd love to see accessibility needs built into existing mainstream products such as GoogleMaps or OVI Maps, even if there is a cost associated in this support because with the GPS solution being free worldwide then adding accessibility support with a small fee wouldn't be so unrealistic. It's interesting to think that worldwide OVI maps has free walk and drive so if we can get screen reader accessibility on this then it's really interesting, POI's are not as good yet but Nokia is apparently building a lot more into their maps platform so this could be still to come anyway. People may struggle to think of a positive here but this situation is showing what we can do if we stick together and it's a good test of seeing if big corporations listen when challenged..... We are also at the early stages of important worldwide GPS solution changes which although has resulted in WFA's demise it could also result in some new alternatives for us and if we can encourage accessibility support to be added at these early stages then it could be interesting. Here's the links to the allaboutsymbian coverage, it may be small but to get a mention on such mainstream areas is good exposure and all helps get GPS accessibility brought to the attention of people such as Nokia and Google! Podcast page link - http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/media/item/AAS_Podcast_174_Navteq_True_Silver light_Windows_Phone_7_Series.php Direct link to mp3 file - http://mediafiles.allaboutsymbian.com/aas_podcast_20100322_174.mp3 Link to the news item that was originally used to highlight WFA to the allaboutsymbian team http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/11269_Wayfinder_finally_dies_a_cold _.php Cheers Pete -original message- Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Nokia Ovi Maps3.3 full interface description From: "All formats" <allformats@xxxxxxxxx> Date: 23/03/2010 10:21 am Hi Pete. I just sent the list an update regarding the protest which you will find interesting. I agree with your comments about raising awareness generally. It is partly what I and others involved in the petition site have always been about. Please could you pop a link up as regards the Podcast where Talks and so is mentioned and a link to the article where they talk about the protest site. I did send a ready made article to their news link as well as starting a post about the protest site on their too so, it is great if they have taken it on board. Thanks for your comments again. Paul -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of DurDevil Sent: 22 March 2010 18:59 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Nokia Ovi Maps3.3 full interface description Hi Paul i think contacting the allaboutsymbian site was a good idea too, covered our story on their site and they even talk about it on their podcast today [even the new Talks release got a mention!] all the time we name and shame Voda may not bring back WFA but it may help in getting it released to a third party developer but most importantly it raises awareness and shows companies that they should consider accessibility needs so we can use mainstream things perhaps with just minor adaptations. I especially think Voda should do the decent thing here and answer our protest, admit they got caught out with the changes in navigation going free and offer something to the WFA users, they may be able to move customers to an alternative but not WFA users so they need to address this.. Cheers Pete -original message- Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Nokia Ovi Maps3.3 full interface description From: "All formats" <allformats@xxxxxxxxx> Date: 22/03/2010 2:47 pm I think wait is a good idea. There will be something soon one way or the other as Vodafone will find it difficult to ignore the steady stream of attention it is getting around the discontinuation of Wayfinder Access. Keep plugging the petition if you would as it will give us more ability to negotiate with Vodafone. Thanks. Paul H _____ From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Hussein Patwa Sent: 21 March 2010 11:47 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Nokia Ovi Maps3.3 full interface description True, but we could also just wait for him to comment personally on this when he gets back to his mails. I'm guessing as a full time businessman, it'll be Monday. Let's not jump to conclusions until we have all sides of the story. And of course, there will be business politics thrown into the mixture as well. That is just a part of life these days whenever competition is involved. _______________________________________ Have a pleasant day, Kind Regards and Best Wishes, Hussein. Hussein Patwa Tel: 0789 47 595 62 (UK) Tel: +44 (0)122 4433 954 (SIP) Twitter: www.twitter.com/hussein_patwa Skype: patwaspotterfan2 GoogleTalk: thewanderingwriter Web: <http://www.patwanet.co.uk> www.patwanet.co.uk My Blog: <http://patwaspotterfan.livejournal.com> http://patwaspotterfan.livejournal.com Find me on Facebook: <http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=510013486> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=510013486 From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ibrahim Gucukoglu Sent: 21 March 2010 11:28 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Nokia Ovi Maps3.3 full interface description Hi Saqib and Daren. Wasn't Neil Barnfather also involved in taking the product for a trial as well? Mike may have been biased, but there's no reason to think that Neil would side with him on the negative aspects of the Kapten unless there was a good reasoning behind it. I believe neil when he tells me in private conversation that he is as much concerned to find a good replacement as everyone else and that he is working toward that end as a goal, I just don't believe that Neil would slight a product unless there was good cause to do so. All the best, Ibrahim. ----- Original Message ----- From: Saqib <mailto:Saqib500@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 11:21 AM Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Nokia Ovi Maps3.3 full interface description Hi Darren. A friend of mine has trialed this Capten device and he tells me that it works very well and he can't figgure out why it's received negative reviews. My Twitter page is www.twitter.com/saqib1975 MSN Saqib500@xxxxxxxxxxx From: Darren Harris <mailto:darren_g_harris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:59 AM To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Nokia Ovi Maps3.3 full interface description hi, well as much as i want to see the WFA petition get somewhere and posatively, it is a great product no matter how much people have spent on it, it would be a shame to see it fall like this. equally, i also have to think about this from my personal perspective as well. i am a gps user and as such i'm not going to go without a gps. equally i'm not prepared to pay the stupid prices demanded by the blindness world either. certainly not before i've looked at the alternatives. right now as it stands i have time to look around as has already been mentioned, we aren't going to lose wfa until sometime next year. so really people we shouldn't be idle on this either. be active when it comes to the petition yes and spread the word but equally don't rely on it as a form of rescue either because that may not happen at all with all the will in the world. sorry but i'm just being realistic here. i've been reading up on other gps devices including the kapten from kapsys. now before everybody jumps on the band waggan by saying this has already been reviewed by mike may, well here's the point. he's not going to review it posatively is he. for the simple reason that he has his own company to think about so he's hardly likely to review it in a fair manner. think about it, he's not likely to say that this is a wonderful device and that everybody should go and purchase it when he's got the likes of the trekker to think about. considering that the trekker is almost 10 times as expensive as the kapten is he's going to try playing it down. so am going to get a propper look at it myself. which as we speak i'm trying to organize this with my local adaptive tech stockest who happens to sell it and who isn't too far from me either. having been a power user of WFA for almost 2 years, i have a good idea as to what i myself need from a gps unit so i can make a good comparison between the 2. the thing with the kapten is that it's been designed from the ground up to be usable without a screen. which perfectly falls right within our level of requirement. whether this be by accident or design doesn't matter the simple fact is that it does. so my thinking here is that really people shouldn't be taking the word of 1 man as absolute especially when said individual has his own business interests to mind. -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Hussein Patwa Sent: 21 March 2010 10:40 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Nokia Ovi Maps3.3 full interface description Hi, Very well put Ibrahim. Now that the news is known, it is time to look at what to do about it constructively and then look to the future. At the end of the day though, I believe this has to be the choice for the individual. Some may feel it's not worth the hassle, but I would advocate that if one doesn't try, one would never know. I'd just like to see the dealer's response to your comments. Obviously this will have an economic impact on them, so one could ask whether or not they themselves would be considering an action against Wayfinder. It would depend if they knowingly sold the licenses on knowing that their 'shelf life' as you put it would be severely degraded. The fact that maps will be available for a time to come is largely irrelevant. It's either the whole pie or none at all. _______________________________________ Have a pleasant day, Kind Regards and Best Wishes, Hussein. Hussein Patwa Tel: 0789 47 595 62 (UK) Tel: +44 (0)122 4433 954 (SIP) Twitter: www.twitter.com/hussein_patwa Skype: patwaspotterfan2 GoogleTalk: thewanderingwriter Web: www.patwanet.co.uk My Blog: http://patwaspotterfan.livejournal.com Find me on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=510013486 From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ibrahim Gucukoglu Sent: 21 March 2010 09:56 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Nokia Ovi Maps3.3 full interface description Hi. I'd just like to add that it might be possible for those who bought the product very recently to get a refund of their money or a significant portion of their money back. If the product was purchased before the announcement of its discontinuation was made public, it might be possible to argue that the lifetime part of the contract can not be honoured. Furthermore, wayfinder themselves stopped selling licenses for their entire product line late last year anticipating this change, there by significantly undervalueing the access licenses that distributors may have in ready stock. Distributors should be thinking about compensating those customers who weren't aware that they were purchasing a product which as it turns out has a very limited shelf life and to which the customer would have had no knowledge of this before purchase. All the best, Ibrahim. ----- Original Message ----- From: Hussein Patwa <mailto:talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 9:32 AM Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Nokia Ovi Maps3.3 full interface description Hi, Whereas I completely understand where those of you that lost money are coming from, this is a simple question of economics from the company's perspective. It's just not viable to trade in an arena with such a relatively small consumer base and where price sensitivity is high. On the plus side, this is an area that is becoming of growing interest to all consumers, and by that very nature will encourage innovation and change. Therefore, whereas it's true that many products are not totally accessible to the visually impaired by design at present, this is likely to change as the withdrawal of WFA will if anything spur creativity and drive to 'fill the void' if you will. Sorry, I'm not trying to fling aside the concerns over financial loss suffered by existing customers, but I just wish people would look at the situation from both sides of the fence. This is actually a positive development if you take the time to look outside the box. OK, that's my business insight shared for the day. _______________________________________ Have a pleasant day, Kind Regards and Best Wishes, Hussein. Hussein Patwa Tel: 0789 47 595 62 (UK) Tel: +44 (0)122 4433 954 (SIP) Twitter: www.twitter.com/hussein_patwa Skype: patwaspotterfan2 GoogleTalk: thewanderingwriter Web: www.patwanet.co.uk My Blog: http://patwaspotterfan.livejournal.com Find me on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=510013486 From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Paul Cutress Sent: 20 March 2010 21:08 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Nokia Ovi Maps3.3 full interface description that's all very well, but some of us like me, for example have only had my WFA licence for about 2 months!, so when the product is discontinued, what about all the money we have wasted! £240.00 is a lot of money just to thro away, are many people more to the point going to be able to trust the market in quite the same way? I ask you?, and how can we go main stream, when talks doesn't work with the alternatives. ----- Original Message ----- From: Saqib <mailto:Saqib500@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 12:01 PM Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Nokia Ovi Maps3.3 full interface description Hi Darren. Quite a number of us have not only considered it as an alternative. We are already using it with great success. Although I feel for the loss of WFA and can sympothise with other people I feel its time for us to go mainstreem. I haven't had the WFA product but I've had the opportunity to trial the software. I can understand how much info will be taken away from the user when the product finally is discontinued and that is where my sympothy lies as using another product like Ovi Maps will feel like making the best of a bad job with very little tools. Having said all this it's time to explore the market and embrace new products and ideas. My Twitter page is www.twitter.com/saqib1975 MSN Saqib500@xxxxxxxxxxx From: Darren Harris <mailto:darren_g_harris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 11:37 AM To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Nokia Ovi Maps3.3 full interface description it's great reading about all of this but is it realistically accessible? i mean is it something that we can viably consider as an alternative? -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ibrahim Gucukoglu Sent: 19 March 2010 20:48 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Nokia Ovi Maps3.3 full interface description Hi Hussein and Saqib. Would it be possible to use the talks icon labeller to label these icons? All the best, Ibrahim. ----- Original Message ----- From: Hussein Patwa <mailto:talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 8:26 PM Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Nokia Ovi Maps3.3 full interface description Hi, Thank you very much for doing this. This will be of great use to a lot of people I'm sure. Actually it ties in to an idea I have been sitting on for some time which I will write you about off list. Best, _______________________________________ Have a pleasant day, Kind Regards and Best Wishes, Hussein. Hussein Patwa Tel: 0789 47 595 62 (UK) Tel: +44 (0)122 4433 954 (SIP) Twitter: www.twitter.com/hussein_patwa Skype: patwaspotterfan2 GoogleTalk: thewanderingwriter Web: www.patwanet.co.uk My Blog: http://patwaspotterfan.livejournal.com Find me on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=510013486 From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Saqib Sent: 19 March 2010 17:56 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Nokia Ovi Maps3.3 full interface description Nokia Ovi Maps 3.3 main menu description. This description is for the new Nokia Maps 3.3 main menu interface. Usually when you open the application you are greted with the main menu which consists of 10 icons. There are two rows of 4 icons which are displayed on the screen and a further 2 which can be seen at the bottom left of the screen. The display almost looks like a 4-4-2 formation. For those who follow football will know what I'm relating to. When you first open the Ovi Maps 3.3 app the drive icon is highlighted. The drive icon is located on the left of the screen, second one down from the top left icon. If you select this drive icon you will be presented with a further 3 icons. The highlighter will be on the first of the 3 icons presented which is on the left of the other two icons. The first icon is called drive home in this submenu. Selecting this will prompt the app to start navigation to your home location. The second icon in this sub menu is called Set Destination. Pressing select on this will bring up a accessible menu where you can select an option of your choice. These choices consist of History, Favourites, Search and finally From Map. The From Map is the 4th option. The third and final icon from this Drive submenu is called Map. If you select this you will be shown a Map view of your current location. From this Map you can press select and you will then be presented with a accessible menu. The first of these options is Show Details.This will give you further information in text so You will know exactly where you are currently standing. For example a name of the road and the number of the property in which you may be standing by. Second option is Share location. Third option is Save Place. 4th option is Send. I have now covered the drive section of Ovi Maps 3.3. My Position Icon From the main icon screen remember when I pointed out that the highlighter is stationed on the Drive icon in which I have described in detail above. Above this icon is the My position icon which is situated on the top left of the screen. It's the first icon in the first row of icons. To get to this you just arrow up once from the Drive icon. With in this map view you can hit select to bring up an accessible menu. These consist of Show Details,Share Location, Save Place and the final option in the list is Send. Find Places The Find Places icon is the second icon in from the top left next to the My Position Icon. Pressing select on this will bring up a search box. Once you type in your search you should be presented with a result of your search. Share Location The Share Location Icon is the third icon in the top ro after the Find Places icon. You will have to create a Nokia account to take advantage of this feature. Favourites The Favourites Icon is the 4th and last icon in the top row. This is on the right of the Share Location icon. Pressing select on this will bring up the Favourites menu. The options here are Sincronise with Ovi, Places, Routs and Create New Collection. Second row of 4 icons description The First option in this row of icons is the Drive option. I have covered this earlier on in this document. Walk The Walk option resides next door to the Drive icon. Selecting this option will bring up a submenu of three icons. The first icon is Walk Home. This will trigger the navigation mode and you will be ready to outtake your journey on foot. Icon 2 is the Set Destination option. From heare you can select an address from a previous history or favourites. There are also options to search or select from map. As the map it self is inaccessible I think this option is not applicable for the VI user. The final option in the Walk submenu is help. Sadly this is also inaccessible. Weather The Weather icon is the third icon in the second row and this is inaccessible. Events The Events Icon is the final icon in the second row of four. This feature is also inacfcessible. Third row of 2 icons The third row which is the bottom row has two icons. Both are inaccessible. The first is called Loanly Plannet and the neighbouring icon is called Michelin. I hope this description is a help to those who are using the application. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4958 (20100319) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4958 (20100319) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4961 (20100320) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4961 (20100320) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4961 (20100320) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4961 (20100320) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4961 (20100320) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4961 (20100320) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com