I cannot believe some of the posts I have read here in this thread. Peter Logue, you have an incredibly bad attitude, and you clearly didn't bother researching your purchase at all did you! If you had, you would have learned before purchasing that only one synth comes as standard with Talks, and that you have to choose which one you want. Sometimes, if one purchases a Realspeak voice as the default synth, one may be lucky enough to find that Eloquence works without limitation as well, but that's a bug I believe, and something Nuance is bound to get around to fixing at some point.
I learned all of that without talking to Neil or Steve at all! If I can do it, so can you! If you feel unable to do simple internet research then get some computer lessons my friend, you clearly need them.
I don't normally respond to things like this, but your attitude is a blind, the world owes me a living attitude, and fare enough if you want to bitch and wine in private to friends or to family you go right ahead, but to do what you've done in public on a list like this is inexcusable.
Your gripe may indeed be valid, and perhaps the Comproom services Website could be a little more informative I agree, but its the tone of your wining that annoyed me! Wining like that is exactly the kind of attitude that gives blind people a very bad name in the eyes of the sighted world. There are ways of going about things, and your way is not one of them.
Get some anger management or a stress ball at least!I may even be banned for giving you a dressing down like this on list, but I think it needed to be said, not by the list moderator who does a fantastic job considering how busy this list is, but just by one blind person to another! Carry on with an attitude like that, and you're going to get yourself in serious trouble one day mate, I guarantee it. God help you if you ever talk to the wrong sighted person the way you talked to Steve here on the list, because the wrong person won't just sit and try and work things out mate, they'll just deck you, visual impairment or no visual impairment!
Sorry to everyone who didn't think my message was appropriate, and I wasn't trying to do the moderator's job or anything like that, but he needs to be told by ordinary people just like him that his attitude stinks.
Matt----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:48 PM Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Dealers and Promotion Hi Paul, With my dealer hat on, I never advertise that I sell Talks on here for its own sake. But a long time ago, Graham kindly asked me to join this list in case I could help anyone out, and I do that with pleasure. If someone asks me the price of Talks for example, do I answer the question, or do I say, I can't answer that because I am a dealer? I could understand objection to dealers if we were advertising other wares, but as we are Talks dealers, I would have thought that questions on prices, upgrade policies, etc, are OK. But if the moderator didn't want me to talk about any of that, I would respect it. All the best Steve -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of All formats Sent: Thursday 9 October 2008 16:34 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Dealers and Promotion We all know that Steve and Neil sell the products in question and I think that it is unavoidable that they talk about that fact when it is appropriate and for what my comment is worth, they do a damn good job of maintaining a good balance without any new guidance necessary. This list would be a far cry from what it is now if they were not involved. It is Peter after all who has been airing his grievances in public whilst Steve, in my view has maintained some dignity over this. I know he is more than capable of commenting for himself if he wishes. Again, for the record, I have had most excellent service from both vendors and have not felt influenced as to who to use. I make a choice at the end of the day. In short, lets be careful as to what we ask for and try to keep a common sense perspective here. Paul Hopkins - Manager (All Formats) Queen Alexandra College Court Oak Road Harborne BIRMINGHAM B17 9TG Tel: 0121 428 5018 Fax: 0121 428 5048 E-mail: allformats@xxxxxxxxx Web: www.allformats.org.uk Allformats - Braille, Audio, Digital and Large Print Resources for Access by People with a Visual Impairment. ***** Confidentiality and Disclaimer: This email and its attachments are intended for the addressee(s) only and may be confidential or the subject of legal privilege. If this email and its attachments have come to you in error you must take no action based on them, nor must you retain them, copy them, distribute them or disclose their contents to any other person. Please contact the sender immediately to notify them of the error. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this e-mail that do not relate to the official business of Queen Alexandra College shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. ***** -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Neil Barnfather - TalkNav Sent: 09 October 2008 16:02 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Dealers and Promotion Philip, MY point exactly, I'm not quite sure where the line is now drawn, I clearly, as does Steve, invest a lot of time in assisting people, even when it doesn't necessarily result in a sale for me. As of course the aim is that people will think of us and our company next time they need a product that we sell. I'd like to hope that I don't cross the line, but it's a necessity to have to raise our profile and make sure that people know who we are and what we do otherwise we'd not stimulate interest. As for things like the Talks international users list and the WFA list we actually pay for them to exist, thus are not only heavy participants on those lists but also are the reason for their existence. I'm not saying that the anecdotes of the past few days are right or justified, far from it, but if I am not allowed my e-mail signature nor to promote TalkNav's services where appropriate then I would have to re-consider how much personal time I invest in providing assistance to those on this specific list. After all, Steve and I are providing a service, just because at this level access to that service is free of charge, we both at the end of the day expect and hope for subsequent follow up. Best wishes. Neil Barnfather WFA List Administrator Talks Users Host Don't forget TalkNav which is a Nuance accessibility and Wayfinder Access software dealer and distributor, for all your product needs with instant product activation and an online store supporting British Sterling, US Dollars and Euros. www.talknav.net +44 161 277 7997 service@xxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Philip Martin Sent: 09 October 2008 15:05 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Where's daniel Hi Graham, As this list is specifically a TALKS list, it would be difficult to maintain a high degree of expertise and up to date info. if the dealers were not responding to queries about Talks put by list members. As far as I can remember Steve and Neil have only ever responded to questions and not promoted discussion. I hope that they will continue to respond in the helpful way they have always done in the past. It is of course unacceptable for anyone to pursue a personnel vendetta over this list. Such matters should be dealt with privately between the parties concerned. Regards Philip ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Longly" <longly@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:23 PM Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Where's daniel Peter Personal abuse of other list members or airing grievances on the list will not be tolerated. If you persist in this your list membership will be terminated with immediate effect. Also talks dealers please and as someone who resells talks through comp room I am speaking to myself here as well, Please do not use the list to promote your products or services as this is not in keeping with the spirit of the list,. Ok hopefully we can now get back to talking about phones. Cheers! Graham List owner and moderator! -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Logue Sent: 09 October 2008 10:46 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Where's daniel Thanks to another lister who sympathised with my plight as she has heard many similar stories against computer room services, I have re activated the registration and have all voices and zooms restored. Steve failed to inform me of this step in his post. Par for the course. Sorry for messing you guys up. But I refuse to be ripped off. Peter From beautiful Helensburgh on the firth of Clyde. -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of All formats Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:06 AM To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Where's daniel Paul, I agree with you on both points. This should really go off list now. I too believe that you have to "Restore Registration", before the changes will take effect. The time taken to send text messages (which are needed of the changes to take place); the time it takes for the code to be initiated at Talks once the request has been made etc, are all factors I would think. Paul Hopkins - Manager (All Formats) Queen Alexandra College Court Oak Road Harborne BIRMINGHAM B17 9TG Tel: 0121 428 5018 Fax: 0121 428 5048 E-mail: allformats@xxxxxxxxx Web: www.allformats.org.uk Allformats - Braille, Audio, Digital and Large Print Resources for Access by People with a Visual Impairment. ***** Confidentiality and Disclaimer: This email and its attachments are intended for the addressee(s) only and may be confidential or the subject of legal privilege. If this email and its attachments have come to you in error you must take no action based on them, nor must you retain them, copy them, distribute them or disclose their contents to any other person. Please contact the sender immediately to notify them of the error. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this e-mail that do not relate to the official business of Queen Alexandra College shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. ***** -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Paul Bepey Sent: 09 October 2008 09:45 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Where's daniel Peter Do you not read responces people have made to this on this list? This is a matter between yourself and Steve which should be dealt with privately. Steve, if the voices have been upgraded and he has rebooted his phone, am I correct in thinking Peter would need to select restore registration? Regards, Paul Bepey. Greenwich Community College. -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Logue Sent: 09 October 2008 09:40 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Where's daniel Steve, My phone is not upgraded at all. I rebooted the handset and just checked. I'd really like to know what you are playing at. In fact, I do not even have a zooms tab any more. Why did you say you have upgraded my zooms and all voices, when in fact you have done no such thing. You are making a small matter much more troublesome for yourself. Will you kindly do as you have promised in your post and initiate zooms and all voices including Eloquence. As for griping. Quite frankly I feel I have a right to. Is it okay to gripe and complain about services offered to the blind, but as long as its not one of our own? I wish this matter could be resolved as soon as possible, hopefully before more disgruntled customers come out of the woodwork an tell their story. This could well have been resolved this morning if Steve Nutt had done what he promised. I feel sure this has done Steve no good at all. So come on Steve re-initiate zooms and all voices, including Eloquence. Peter From beautiful Helensburgh on the firth of Clyde. -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 9:43 PM To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Where's daniel Hi Peter, Again, I never made assumptions, I merely gave you what normally comes with a cross phone upgrade. However, I unreservedly apologise for any misunderstanding, and I have upgraded you to Talks Zooms and all voices. I trust this matter is now concluded, but if I can help further, please contact me. All the best Steve -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Logue Sent: Wednesday 8 October 2008 21:30 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Where's daniel Hi Steve, You write: As far as Peter is concerned, he told me he prefers Daniel, so I have swapped the voice for him. So if he then wants Eloquence too, he would need to pay the additional 27 pounds. Steve, I think you miss the point here. I do like Daniel. But I also like Eloquence. Also I haf retinitis pigmentosa. People with retinitis pigmentosa quite often have some sight. I have some sight. Because of this I liked the fact that this version came with zooms. Zoomes, like Daniel of talks, was a major reason why I made the purchase to this latest version. I purchased talks from your sight with no stipulations as to what will time out or what part of the demo is or is not included. Like many screen readers today, some new versions come out with newer versions of eloquence or synth voices. Take window eyes for instance. No one thinks that the latest eloquence is an aditional cost? This is why I thought Daniel was an integral part of the latest version of talks. Steve, you nor your staff told me differently one way or the other. So why would I think that I was not getting talks as part and parcel of the program. I enjoyed zooms as the demo. I enjoyed Daniel and the other voices, including Eloquence as the demo. And I loved everything about it. This is why I forked out the money to buy it. Now you tell me because you assumed this or you assumed that, that I have to pay an additional cost. Well Steve, this would not happen on the high street. In fact I have taken a certain electronic store to task for advertising a 42 inch TV for the price of a 28 and have demanded the lower price as advertised. This is the law and it should make no difference that you work on the internet. In fact I am sure that I have the law on my side in this regard also. I have given you the best part of the day to come up with a settlement and you have failed to do so. In light of this I must demand that you come up with the voices that I demoed on the software as well as the zooms that I demoed on the software, otherwise I will take steps against you in the nature of contacting Visa for the fact that you advertised a product which is not as advertised, as well as contacting Nuance and the RNIB who hold the UK distribution rights for Talks. Very sincerely, Peter Logue From beautiful Helensburgh on the firth of Clyde. -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 5:29 PM To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Where's daniel Hi Neil, Thank you for that excellent explanation of how things work. As far as Peter is concerned, he told me he prefers Daniel, so I have swapped the voice for him. So if he then wants Eloquence too, he would need to pay the additional 27 pounds. The demo gives you everything so that you can decide what you want, but usually, if you ask for a cross phone upgrade, then that's what you get, like for like. All the best Steve -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Neil Barnfather - TalkNav Sent: Wednesday 8 October 2008 16:55 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Where's daniel Peter, To be fare to Steve, if someone does a handset change license with us they get the same synths that they had on their old phone on their new one. So if they had eloquence that is what is moved over, and if they had real speak again the same. If they had both again both on the new one. There is no facility to do a change of handset and switch synths at the same time for only £50, you'd have to pay the additional £27 to add the missing synth. On our site when you make your automated purchase you must choose either eloquence or real speak, making it clear that you're only getting one or the other, then clearly beneath this there's the option to add real speak to eloquence, or eloquence to real speak. Again making it obvious that they are not one within the same. Having again said this, in all fairness to Steve we are primarily an automated service, our clients can often make a purchase and we'll never hear from them at all, not before nor after. Steve's model works more over the phone, where he develops a relationship with his clients. Forgive me Steve if this is not the case. This does not mean that we don't take calls, simply that a lot of our customers simply use the store and we don't hear from them, to the contrary there's 14 members of staff here ready to take your call. But what I'm trying to get at, is that if someone did a handset change Steve was quite right to assume that the person was to keep the same synth, in fact the facility to change it does not exist, all he could do is sell someone an additional synth at £27. Something which we'd always try and up sell to someone doing a change of handset at that time if they did it over the phone. If someone has a demo copy, as either a first time Talks user or a temporary between doing a change of handset then in the first instance we always make the point clear that only one synth comes with the price of £150, and that it's an extra £27 for the additional one. If it's a change of handset then generally we'd not make it clear that they only get what they had before, but we'd try and up sell them the additional one anyhow. Sometimes mistakes happen, and sometimes things get over looked, in general that's just the way things go. Regards. Neil Barnfather WFA List Administrator Talks Users Host Don't forget TalkNav which is a Nuance accessibility and Wayfinder Access software dealer and distributor, for all your product needs with instant product activation and an online store supporting British Sterling, US Dollars and Euros. www.talknav.net +44 161 277 7997 service@xxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Logue Sent: 08 October 2008 11:32 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Where's daniel Hi Paul, Well at least I am Peter now and that is indeed a polite progression. I thank you for this. As to knowing that you would end up with only one voice when purchasing talks. How did you find out? Were you told or did you read it on the site where the purchase was made? I do understand that at the TalkNav, www.talknav.com website, you are informed as to what you end up with when the purchase is made. However, this isn't the case at computer room services where, on asking, I was told to simply download the talks program and pay for it at my leasure. Wither or not you venture to consider me silly for not reading terms and conditions upon purchase, rather than trusting in that I would not be deceived, well this is entirely up to you I guess. But I believe most people do not read lengthy terms and conditions prior to a minor purchase. As I said before, no one told me that the software would be limited on purchaseand I don't believe this list was set up to deliver such info, so I believe I have a proper gripe. Telling listers to get a life Paul is immature and only leads to inflame an already touchy situation. Regards, Peter Logue From beautiful Helensburgh on the firth of Clyde. -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of All formats Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:48 AM To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Where's daniel Peter. Get a life Mate! There are several ways to use the phrase "quite sure" and I am using it in the context of knowing that I have read the information pertaining to the rules on purchasing Talks and Zooms. I also pointed to the sites belonging to Steve and Neil who are on this list, as did others here including Steve and Neil themselves. Any other wording I used was to try to spare your blushes given your obvious incompetence in researching on a product or service before you buy it but, I can see now that I need not have bothered! I will not enter into any further correspondence with you on this matter as it will only serve to cause you to create unnecessary unrest on this list. However, if you want a civilised discussion in the future, please feel free. Best regards. Paul Hopkins - Manager (All Formats) Queen Alexandra College Court Oak Road Harborne BIRMINGHAM B17 9TG Tel: 0121 428 5018 Fax: 0121 428 5048 E-mail: allformats@xxxxxxxxx Web: www.allformats.org.uk Allformats - Braille, Audio, Digital and Large Print Resources for Access by People with a Visual Impairment. ***** Confidentiality and Disclaimer: This email and its attachments are intended for the addressee(s) only and may be confidential or the subject of legal privilege. If this email and its attachments have come to you in error you must take no action based on them, nor must you retain them, copy them, distribute them or disclose their contents to any other person. Please contact the sender immediately to notify them of the error. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this e-mail that do not relate to the official business of Queen Alexandra College shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. ***** -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Logue Sent: 08 October 2008 09:58 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Where's daniel You wrote: I am quite sure it is on the sites of those vendors in the UK (Steve with comp room services) and Neil (with talknav). Peter says. You yourself do not sound certain my friend. I'll wager you didn't read the terms and conditions either. Your uncertainty yells that loud and clear. so don't come on here telling me that I should have done so. Peter From beautiful Helensburgh on the firth of Clyde. -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of All formats Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 9:39 AM To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Where's daniel I think you have to read the terms and conditions my Friend. I knew what the score was when I purchased talks. I am quite sure it is on the sites of those vendors in the UK (Steve with comp room services) and Neil (with talknav). ...And in any case, here is the list, you can always ask before making any decision. It is not difficult in short to find the information you need. Cheers. Paul Hopkins - Manager (All Formats) Queen Alexandra College Court Oak Road Harborne BIRMINGHAM B17 9TG Tel: 0121 428 5018 Fax: 0121 428 5048 E-mail: allformats@xxxxxxxxx Web: www.allformats.org.uk Allformats - Braille, Audio, Digital and Large Print Resources for Access by People with a Visual Impairment. ***** Confidentiality and Disclaimer: This email and its attachments are intended for the addressee(s) only and may be confidential or the subject of legal privilege. If this email and its attachments have come to you in error you must take no action based on them, nor must you retain them, copy them, distribute them or disclose their contents to any other person. Please contact the sender immediately to notify them of the error. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this e-mail that do not relate to the official business of Queen Alexandra College shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. ***** -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Brian Sent: 08 October 2008 07:00 To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Where's daniel Hi It appears that talks needs to do something about it's customer relationships. brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Logue" <castle2008@xxxxxxx> To: <talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:56 PM Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Where's daniel Hello, You wrote: HI you have to pay extra for Real Speak voices. It's £27 in the UK. Peter says: I understand that now. But I took out that talks demo with the belief that all voices that were on offer was what you got when you paid for the product. To me its like buying a car. You test drive a specific vehicle with many visible niceties. You expect to pay for what you test drove. Imagine your surprise when you are told that the windscreen is extra. I was really disappointed when many of my voices timed out when I finally bought the product. Does it say on the nuance website that you only get one voice? Peter From beautiful Helensburgh on the firth of Clyde. -----Original Message----- From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Saqib Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:04 PM To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Where's daniel HI you have to pay extra for Real Speak voices. It's £27 in the UK. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Logue" <castle2008@xxxxxxx> To: <talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 1:33 PM Subject: [talks-uk] Where's daniel
Hi all, I just purchased talks for a new cell phone. I had Daniel on the demo. Now I've paid for the upgrade Daniel is gone. Is this the way of it? Do I have to now pay for Daniel to come back? If so, this seems a bit unfair practise since I fully believed Daniel came with the software. Am I wrong here? Or do I just get Daniel as a download from Nuance? If Daniel was to be omitted from the final paid for package, why wasn't I made aware of this? Peter
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