[tabi] Re: Online Courses

  • From: Governor Staten <govsta@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 17:57:21 -0400

If you teach sound operating system methods, this could be done.

On 6/26/2011 2:32 PM, Lynn Evans wrote:

We had a short discussion a good wile back on the BARD Talk mailing list on how to download and transfer books. We had people asking us to tell them the keystrokes they would need to perform these tasks. Someone on the list figured out it would take something like 65 keystrokes to accomplish this.

Would not it be better to teach people the method and reasons so the person could transfer the info from one operating system to another? Give general directions like open the browser to the website, log in, type your search query in to the search field or locate your book. This way no matter what website you are on the procedures are the same?

    ----- Original Message -----
    *From:* Charles Atkins <mailto:catkins@xxxxxxx>
    *To:* tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    *Sent:* Sunday, June 26, 2011 12:11 AM
    *Subject:* [tabi] Re: Online Courses

    Excellent points Chip!
    Perhaps we should convey these thoughts to those in the field of
    education concerned about our struggle for equality as blind
    citizens of this great country?
    Maybe everybody should send this string to one very very close
    friend, instructor,and various other important ongoing contacts in
    our lives?
    Any other such thoughts anyone?

        ----- Original Message -----
        *From:* Allison and Chip Orange <mailto:acorange@xxxxxxxxxxx>
        *To:* tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        *Sent:* Saturday, June 25, 2011 11:01 PM
        *Subject:* [tabi] Re: Online Courses

        I think I finally understand Charles' point: we should have an
        alternate way of taking remote classes which doesn't require
        so much technical sophistication.
        I agree; how about simply having the audio from the classes
        piped into phone line number (a conference call line) where
        students could call and listen?  live or to recordings?
        I did that once at work with a company who knew their remote
        seminar software wasn't accessible, so they made the audio of
        live classes available on a conference call line.
        I don't know what else to say: remote learning is really hard
        to do.  maybe you could get them to do the hadley approach
        where they mailed the students all the needed materials.
        But even for the technically sophisticates, if you're blind, I
        think there will be many remote learning situations which
        won't work.  Not until we get all computer professionals on
        board with the technical points behind accessibility, and all
        business people get the idea that the ADA applies to
        everything public on the web (and it looks to me that the
        legal interpretation is moving in that direction).

        *From:* tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Governor Staten
        *Sent:* Saturday, June 25, 2011 9:04 PM
        *To:* tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        *Subject:* [tabi] Re: Online Courses

        for those who can't learn it, we can help you. How will you
        know if you don't receive proper instruction on it? It's like
        having the race rigged against you before you even run out of
        the blocks. Speech recognition might offer you hope too.

        On 6/25/2011 7:29 PM, Charles Atkins wrote:
        I love the computer and what it stands for, great tool!  The
        best.  Had it come as an organ in our bodies, we'd all get
        it!  Teachers can tell some students a million times through
        an entire life time, and yet, many many many still won't get
        it by default gentlemen and others!  They are not stupid!  It
        is just not what they are cut out for!
        Technology is just you guys forte and thank God there are
some of you around, usually to tell the others what to do! Technology is here, I'm sure to stay, as it should, but, I
        pray, someday, the computer evolves and become automatic
        (every single function).
        Thanks for listening!

            ----- Original Message -----
            *From:* Allison and Chip Orange
            *To:* tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
            *Sent:* Saturday, June 25, 2011 7:03 PM
            *Subject:* [tabi] Re: Online Courses

            this is a very very good point Governor!
            I've seen some assistive technology instructors simply
            giving the student keystrokes to memorize, with no
            explanation as to which ones were a screen reader
            command, and which (such as windows-M or even tabbing
            between controls of a dialog) were windows commands, and
            so would work for sighted people or with another screen
            Place such students in a slightly different environment
            (say with another screen reader), and they have no idea
            what they can and can't use.

            *From:* tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
            [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of
            *Governor Staten
            *Sent:* Saturday, June 25, 2011 2:47 PM
            *To:* tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
            *Subject:* [tabi] Re: Online Courses

            There is a deeper problem here too. When you teach a
            person how to use a screen reader and not the operating
            system, Windows for example, you're headed for trouble.
            They rely on that screen reader to do everything for
            them. Learn Windows first, and then, learn screen reader
            commands on top of that. What makes something accessible?
            It could be that you might not know what you need to know
            to use the site, or it could truly be inaccessible. Which
            scenario are we talking about here?

            On 6/25/2011 12:44 PM, Charles Atkins wrote:
            I know Hadley is cool; I had classes with them before!
            I'm more worried that, more than should have to,
            students that are visually impaired are not,
            independently, sailing and are needing outside
            assistance far too often and instructors are being
            permitted to feel comfortable with having them do it.

                ----- Original Message -----
                *From:* Lynn Evans <mailto:evans-lynn@xxxxxxxxxxx>
                *To:* tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
                *Sent:* Saturday, June 25, 2011 12:33 PM
                *Subject:* [tabi] Re: Online Courses

                It is hard to say Charles
                The classes over the internet would be 100% accessible.
                The Excel class They mailed me the workbook and I
                used my CCTV and emailed them my test. I thought it
                was quite accessible.
                The coarse on the Old Testament was on audio tape
                and I emailed them the test.
                Hadley is the school for the blind so it has to be

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    *From:* Charles Atkins <mailto:catkins@xxxxxxx>
                    *To:* tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                    *Sent:* Saturday, June 25, 2011 8:38 AM
                    *Subject:* [tabi] Re: Online Courses

                    But how would you score Lynn?

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        *From:* Lynn Evans
                        *To:* tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                        *Sent:* Friday, June 24, 2011 8:24 PM
                        *Subject:* [tabi] Re: Online Courses

                        Let's not forget
                        The Hadley school has computer classes and
                        they are free.
                        I beta tested an Excel coarse a few years
                        ago and learned a lot.
                        coarse listings at:

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            *From:* Charles Atkins
                            *To:* tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                            *Sent:* Friday, June 24, 2011 4:21 PM
                            *Subject:* [tabi] Re: Online Courses

                            To add:
                            Some people can't really get the
                            "technical" theory together but, need
                            the computer just as much as the rest of
                            the world does.  For them, a series of
                            nice recordings of skilled users of Jaws
                            and other speech and audible program,
                            succeeding and sort of describing as
                            they are going along so, would, I
                            believe, be an enormous help.
                            A very thoughtful world would realize
                            that by default, many, won't be able to
                            be adept at using computers, just as,
                            many, will!
                            Everybody can breathe and eat and such,
                            but, everybody can't perform all skills
                            with an equal degree of proficiency.
                            I've known many people with all of their
                            vision, and other faculties, but,
                            couldn't even, drive a car, nor, swim
                            and more!

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                *From:* Tinetta Cooper
                                *To:* tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                                *Sent:* Friday, June 24, 2011 12:25 PM
                                *Subject:* [tabi] Re: Online Courses

                                I would score accessibility as an
                                8.  Are you doing a survey?

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    *From:* Charles Atkins
                                    *To:* tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                                    *Sent:* Friday, June 24, 2011
                                    10:47 AM
                                    *Subject:* [tabi] Re: Online Courses

Are you prepared to say, then: From 1 to 10, fairly accessible
                                    scores a

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        *From:* Tinetta Cooper
                                        *To:* tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                                        *Sent:* Friday, June 24,
                                        2011 10:11 AM
                                        *Subject:* [tabi] Re: Online

                                        I have taken online courses
                                        at TCC, and will be taking
                                        another in the fall.
                                        Once you learn to navigate
                                        the Blackboard web page, it
is fairly accessible. Blackboard is the main page
                                        for most colleges and
                                        universities.  Course work
                                        may involve other
                                        applications, such as Excel,
                                        Word, Access, and
                                        PowerPoint.  While these
                                        programs are not as
                                        accessible, instructors are
                                        very helpful in making
                                        materials easier to use.  I
                                        even had communication with
                                        a blind professor at FSU
                                        who consulted with one of my
                                        professors.  This was
                                        regarding an online course
                                        in macroeconomics.
                                        I hope this information is

                                            ----- Original Message
                                            *From:* Charles Atkins
                                            *To:* tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                                            *Sent:* Thursday, June
                                            23, 2011 11:13 PM
                                            *Subject:* [tabi] Online

                                            Anyone taking online
                                            courses in our group?
                                            Are you getting the job
                                            done independently?
                                            Has any leaders of the
                                            blind made a list of
                                            schools and universities
                                            which are accessible
                                            and, not accessible?
                                            Is it a website?
                                            Charles Atkins

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