[tabi] Re: FW: Fw: public transportation letter to city commissioners

  • From: "Chip and Allie Orange" <acorange@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 21:16:34 -0400

Ok; but for those issues, talk to the city commissioners as you did, or
Ivan; Brian can't redesign the current system.
In my opinion, the current system was done entirely for the self-improvement
for Ron Garrison, who ducked out before any of the promises he made had to
be truly full-filled.  The old system did have its problems too don't
There's probably a compromise system possible, with several smaller transfer
points scattered around the city, but it would probably require the city to
spend more money to make it workable.  They also need to spend more money on
Dial-a-Ride.  Instead, they're spending  (what is it?) 2 million dollars on
a brew pub?  And the party bus?
These are issues for all the disabled people in the county to get together
on, as well as any other organizations which will represent those who can't
afford to drive.  It's going to take everyone working together to get the
city to spend more money right now.  Until then, I am thankful you and Sila
and Brian have made things better.
From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Easy Talk
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 9:05 PM
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tabi] Re: FW: Fw: public transportation letter to city
You are correct, they can put there info on anything they choose but maps
are graphical so unless bing has taken the time to label there maps as
Google has there are of no use to a blind person and that is the point I am
trying to get Brian to understand.  The other thing that bothers me is that
Brian is focused on the disability thing now which isn't a bad thing but the
whole bus system is offal and the level of service sucks.  You can tell the
drivers are dismayed with the system because most of the riders are bitching
when they miss a bus for what ever reason and missing connections. The
system is total confusion. There are a lot of stops that are unsafe and
during the stop selection process there was no consideration given to  the
conditions people have to deal with such as hills and ditches along roads.
No way a person in a wheel chair could navigate some of the drop off points.
Eventually some one is going to get hurt by falling in a ditch or hit by a
car and when they sue the city, maybe that will get there attention. Have
you ever tried to use a cane on a hill in grass along side a ditch?
About the time someone gets use to a route, they change it and in most cases
that change is another reduction in the level of service.  When this
happens, it is amazing how Star metro touts it as increasing rider ship for
that route.  For example on Face Book, They bragged about how many riders
were now riding the Southwood route.  When you turn two routes in to one, of
course the number is going to increase.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Chip and Allie Orange <mailto:acorange@xxxxxxxxxxx>  
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 8:28 PM
Subject: [tabi] Re: FW: Fw: public transportation letter to city
As long as they do both, it doesn't matter if they put this up on Bing as
well as Google Transit.  The world is using Google Transit, so Bing is
essentially offering free computer consulting to try and get people to use
their planner.  It does make it easier to get them up and going first, and
he's made a commitment for Google.
I do disagree with Brian when he says "The issue here is not  the trip
planning, but improper communication."  You wouldn't have had to deal with
communication issues if trip planning had been available (and kept up to
date).  I think it's much easier to have a person responsible for updating
the trip planning database, than trying to train all the people who are at
the call center about every temporary change, as the facts of your case seem
to support. Ideally, they'll improve both.  It's a shame that they didn't
even have their trip planner evaluated for accessibility; it's the law, but
it seems we have to remind every single web site owner, case by case, about
The upshot though is that we've got definite promises to fix things, and
definite time lines to have them done within; you accomplished quite a lot,
with your one misadventure.
From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Easy Talk
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 7:57 PM
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tabi] Re: FW: Fw: public transportation letter to city
That's grate, I never heard of bing maps and I'll bet they aren't
accessible.  The hell with making something accessible just so it is easy
for Star Metro.
Now you know why I wrote to the city Commissioners.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Chip and Allie Orange <mailto:acorange@xxxxxxxxxxx>  
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 6:13 PM
Subject: [tabi] FW: Fw: public transportation letter to city commissioners
From: Waterman, Brian [mailto:Brian.Waterman@xxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2014 9:25 PM
To: Chip and Allie Orange
Subject: Re: [tabi] Fw: public transportation letter to city commissioners
I forgot to add, our trip planner should be up on Bing Maps by the end of
the month. They were much easier to work with and debugged our GTFS feed for

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 13, 2014, at 9:04 PM, "Waterman, Brian" <
<mailto:Brian.Waterman@xxxxxxxxxx> Brian.Waterman@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I am also upset this happened to Robert yesterday. I have already forwarded
the details of his trip to Ivan Maldonado and Operations to address this.
There was a detour in effect for this route. We did provide notices at every
affected bus stop, located temporary stops, and provided information to the
call center on the change. Apparently, this information did was not conveyed
to Robert. We will fix this and not let it happen again.
The issue here is not  the trip planning, but improper communication. Again,
we will address this. 
As for Google Transit, you are right this is a long promised but not
delivered product. We do have trip planner on our website and it runs a
Google Maps in the background. It has the same functionality as
GoogleTransit where you can type in your address, your destination, and time
you want to arrive. It does provide you a trip itinerary. If there is any
problem with the trip planner, we are able to quickly diagnose and fix the
problem. Our trip planner is tied directly to our Trapeze Scheduling System.
Whenever our scheduling system is update with new routes and time points,
the trip planner is updated automatically. We also have the real time bus
location on our website. Currently, this is still in a testing stage since
is it is only viewable on the desktop and there are issues with some of the
buses not broadcasting 100% of the time, but it is there. We should be
rolling out some mobile apps this summer.
Whereas with GoogleTransit, we have to export the General Transit Feed
Specification (GTFS), run it through the debugger, fix any errors, and then
send it to Google.  Once they approve it, its then added to their system.
Once it is approved, we have to set up a website/portal that we download the
GTFS feed to on a regular basis. Google then grabs the feed to keep their
system updated. If an error is detected, we would have to re-export the GTFS
data, debug, and resend it. The GoogleTransit is only as accurate as the
last feed. 
One of the benefits of GoogleTransit is they standardized transit file
specifications. This means the GTFS  we export is able to be used on
numerous other programs and can lead to customization/local apps by local
entrepreneurs. For this reason, it is on my to do list to make this happen
and provide the data for download on our website. This includes the
real-time feed as well so anyone can create a local transit app. I will make
this commitment to you: I will send the GTFS feed to GoogleTransit by
mid-June if not sooner. I am asking for 2 months because I am not quite up
to full staff and Charles is taking a much needed vacation in May. 
I am also aware the .pdfs of the routes on the website are not read easily
by our customers. We are quickly working to resolve this issue and should
have it corrected by the end of the month. We also placed an order to Target
copy for print ride guides for the Plaza. They should be delivered next
week. We are also finalizing the turn-by-turns to have braille ride guides
sent to the printer next week. 
I hope this update answers many of your questions. Please continue to talk
to me about your concerns. Recently, I had a chance to speak to transit
managers from Texas on improving access for the visually impaired. I learned
a lot from them and want to incorporate some of their ideas. Grant funding
does exist for projects that improve access for the visually impaired. 


From: Chip and Allie Orange [ <mailto:acorange@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2014 8:15 PM
To:  <mailto:tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Waterman, Brian
Subject: RE: [tabi] Fw: public transportation letter to city commissioners
I'm sorry this happened to you guys; it seems like you try to do everything
by following all the right procedures, and still, this happens .
I just want to point out to you and Brian Waterman that I have repeatedly
urged StarMetro to put their route data on Google Transit,  This is the
absolutely industry accepted way for planning routes on public transit.  If
StarMetro had done this, the route planning information  would have been
easily accessible, and you would have been told exactly when and where to
catch the bus you needed for your route.  You would not have had to try and
rely on people who either aren't able to do their jobs, or perhaps, this
isn't their job (I don't know), but missing a bus because of being uncertain
where and when to catch it shouldn't happen.
If a route changes, StarMetro could and should easily update this info on
Google Transit, and it would be made available to you instantly.
StarMetro completely deserves to be blasted for what you guys went through;
and I cannot understand why Brian Waterman keeps telling me that "soon ."
the data will be on Google Transit, and it never has.
Brian, I'm sorry but I am now at a point where I feel I can't bring my
problems and requests to you any longer, like Robert, I'm going to begin to
take them to the city commission.
Chip Orange
From:  <mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [
<mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Easy Talk
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2014 1:30 PM
To:  <mailto:tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tabi] Fw: public transportation letter to city commissioners
----- Original Message ----- 
From:  <mailto:Easytalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Easy Talk 
To:  <mailto:commissioners@xxxxxxxxxx> commissioners@xxxxxxxxxx 
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2014 1:28 PM
Subject: public transportation
Dear City Commissioners,
First, I would like to thank you for taking the time to listen to my
concerns.  I am a visually impaired citizen and tax payer of Tallahassee.  I
have been a long-time advocate for the visually impaired and have appeared
before the city commission in the past.
I am writing today in hopes of bringing to your attention the injustice of
the current status of public transportation in Tallahassee pertaining to
both the StarMetro bus system and Dial-A-Ride (DAR).  Currently, there is no
dependable public transportation for disabled and non disabled citizens of
our community.
As you are aware, decentralization of the bus system has been in effect for
about two years now. Instead of getting better, it continues to go downhill
and the level of service is decreasing.
I would like to relate my experience this past Saturday, April 12, when I
decided to use the bus to take a trip to Tomato Land on Thomasville road.  I
live at 2201 Limerick Drive.  My wife called StarMetro to determine what
time we could catch the Dogwood (D) route on Market Street which would be a
straight shot to our destination, 3.1 miles away.  We were told the bus
should arrive about 9:25 AM.  We left our home at 8:45 and arrived at the
bus stop at 9:12.  The aforementioned bus stop is on the northeast corner of
Market Street and McClay Blvd.  About 9:27 a bus came down McClay and made a
right onto Market, leaving us standing on the opposite corner of Market
Street, right at the bus sign marked Route D.  My wife again called
StarMetro and talked to the dispatcher who was very nice and patient. After
about 10 minutes on the phone, with him not being able to make heads or
tails of the schedule and figure out where we were, we thanked him and ended
the call.
We next decided to walk to the bus shelter on Village Square, near Fresh
Market.  After waiting for about 10 minutes, around 10:10 my wife was
watching for the bus using the camera on her cell phone and saw the bus turn
off Thomasville road onto Village Square.  As we waited for the bus to come
to the shelter, we were quite dismayed, along with two other people waiting
for the bus to see it take a left turn at the Financial Center, just east of
the bus shelter.  The two other people started yelling at the bus driver and
the lady got on her phone to StarMetro.  Fortunately, the other people were
able to get the drivers attention and he made a loop and came back to the
shelter and picked us up.  If the other two people had not been there, most
likely, my wife and I would have missed that bus too.  
When I got on the bus, I ask the driver why he didn't stop at the shelter.
He said they didn't stop there anymore because of construction, it was too
bumpy.  My little 3 mile trip took me 3 hours to complete.  I challenge all
of you to take a few trips on the bus and then maybe you will do something
to correct the poor quality of service you expect the citizens of
Tallahassee to accept.  Would you accept this level of service from the
Police or Fire departments?  
This morning, I spent about an hour on the StarMetro website and didn't find
anything that would alert me to a change in the D Route due to construction.
In fact, the web site is pretty useless, seeming to focus more on social
networking, such as FaceBook, Utube and Twitter.  You might want to take the
time to read some of the comments posted there, I didn't see a single
comment that praised StarMetro except how StarMetro bragged that they
provide 4.5 million trips a year and travel over 7 thousand miles a day.
When you take that into consideration based on the current budget, it shows
just how important the city thinks public transportation is to its
taxpayers.  It is apparent that the web site has about as much priority as
the bus system its self.  Since the route changes, the site hasn't been
updated and has information that has expired, for example, the Veterans Take
Down was a week ago.  There are no current print Ride Guides and the time
table appears sideways on your computer screen.  Once, while riding with a
sighted driver friend, we stopped at the down town terminal to get a print
copy of the Ride Guide. We were told they hadn't gotten new ones yet and
they didn't know when they would have them.
I also noticed on FaceBook that StarMetro was proud to brag that they put
Braille signage on each bus stop for their visually impaired patrons. There
wasn't one at the stop at Market Street. So far, I haven't seen a single one
in my travels.  I think Braille signage is a wonderful gesture. However, it
doesn't matter what you put on the bus stop pole if I can't find the sign to
start with.  I called StarMetro when the Braille Signage was in discussion
and expressed to them that tactile markers on the sidewalk should come
before Braille signage. So far, that hasn't happened either.  It is very
apparent that the City doesn't understand or have staff that is experienced
in the needs of the disabled or ADA requirements. In fact, the City
discriminates against disabled people by requiring a valid driver's license
for jobs that don't require you to drive as part of the job description. An
example is a dispatcher for StarMetro. 
As we traveled to our destination, not once did the bus driver announce a
single bus stop.  I bring this to your attention because I have personally
complained to StarMetro about bus drivers not calling out bus stops.  This
is a federal requirement, but for some reason StarMetro doesn't see the need
to comply.  The only way this will ever happen is to incorporate it into the
training of new bus drivers and take appropriate action against drivers who
refuse to announce stops.  Sometimes a driver will call out a few stops when
they notice a blind person got on the bus. However, if they don't do it
regularly, they forget to, even when a blind person is on the bus.
On our return trip, the closest stop to the shelter on Village Square was
the Financial Center which let us out on the south side of Village Square,
heading toward Thomasville road.  At that location, there is no sidewalk and
the grassy area is a hill. Thus, I was walking with my right leg much higher
than my left, leaning toward the street and my guide dog.  The dog was very
uncomfortable with this situation, and so was I.  This is dangerous, as cars
on that street travel pretty fast and someone could stumble and fall.  My
point here is that StarMetro staff don't consider the situations of
individuals riding the bus and the danger they put them into.  
It is unfortunate that the City and StarMetro has focused totally on college
kids (The Rhythm Express) and has little regard for taxpayers who have no
choice other than public transportation to meet their vital transportation
needs.  Just look at the differences in transportation during the week as
opposed to the level of service provided on weekends.  Most people work
during the week and would like to use weekends to shop and conduct business
that they can't do during the week.  I can't even go to a City Commission
meeting to express my concerns because I can't get public transportation
home afterward since service stops in my area at 7 PM. To get home, I would
have to use a cab to the tune of approximately $20.00. Most disabled people
don't have the highest of incomes. Additionally, there isn't any public
transportation to the airport. Totally ridiculous since this is the capital
of Florida.
During the planning stage of Decentralization and the public hearings, Mr.
Garison touted how the new system would have GPS and WI-FI on the busses so
people could find out exactly where and when their bus would arrive.  We
were also suppose to be able to text a number on our cell phones to get
schedule information. None of this has happened after two years.  I, along
with many others have called to suggest that StarMetro submit their bus
information of times and stop locations to Google Transit, a database that
is totally accessible to disabled people using either Apple or Android
phones, a service used by most cities, to no avail.  When I called, I was
told the amount of data input was too much work and that Google wouldn't
return their call.  If the City of Miami, much larger than Tallahassee can
do it, why can't Tallahassee.  The only answer I can come up with is,
StarMetro doesn't care.  How are we supposed to use a bus system when we
can't find out accurate information for bus schedules and times?
Now, let me move to the Dial-A-Ride issue.  Based on the experiences I have
listed above, coupled with bad weather, poorly selected and unsafe bus stops
and missed bus connections, over 100 disabled users of the bus system have
moved over to DAR. Since the City hasn't increased the DAR budget to provide
more vans and drivers to handle the added load, this service has decreased
to an unacceptable level, resulting in late pickups and missed medical
appointments.  Changes in bus routes have caused more people to use DAR on a
daily bases to get to work which means one individual now uses Dial A ride
for 10 trips each week as opposed to using the bus system. An example of
this is the recent change to the Southwood Express.  My wife went to the
City hearing on this matter and along with others, expressed her concerns to
no avail.  It is apparent that the City and StarMetro is going to do what
they want, regardless of public input. So, what is the point of public
input?  Is it your intent to make public transportation so bad that no one
will use it and It can then be said that no one utilizes the system so we
don't need it? 
It has come to the point, that if you, the City Commissioners can't, or
aren't willing to address the public transportation problem as a serious
issue, I have no choice other than to forward this letter to the Federal
Transit authority and file a formal complaint with that agency.  I will also
pursue the possibility of filing a civil rights violation complaint with the
Department of Justice for disabled citizens of Tallahassee.  I am tired of
being a prisoner in my home and feeling unsafe while trying to use public
transportation in my community. I am tired of not having a level of service
to conduct normal daily activities that is equal to what non-disabled
citizens are afforded.
Robert Miller

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