Dear Colleagues,
Further confusion may be averted
if I point out
that what Halliday had in mind
when he spoke of social systems organised by the exchange of value,
rather than symbolic value (meaning),
were those of the eusocial insects (termites, ants and bees).
I know this because he told me so when I asked him nearly 20 years ago.
In such systems, when the workers seize control of the means of production,
they replace one boss with another.
ChRIS
On Mon, 30 May 2022 at 17:34, David Rose <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi Kieran
I too have wondered about this for 30 odd years since MAKH proposed this
thumbnail phylogenesis of complexity.
Starting, and quickly finishing, towards the end of this quotation, whatwould a social system be without meaning? And related to that, what would
meaning be without value?
But chatting with a colleague recently about MAKH’s Marxism it hit me
that his social value/semiotic meaning contrast is just good traditional
Marxist theory, contrasting material base and superstructure. It also helps
to explain why ‘situation’ is contrasted with ‘text’ in his model from 1961
onwards.
Perhaps ironically, Marx’s whole theory of value is (I reckon) a semiotic
theory of social relations, that demolishes the exploiters’ biological one.
David
So, stop! Someone needs to think these things through a little morecarefully.
On Monday, 30 May 2022, 00:01:03 BST, Dr ChRIS CLÉiRIGh <
c.cleirigh@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,
The following might be useful for those who are interested in the bigger
picture.
Halliday & Matthiessen (1999: 507-9):
We are treating language as a semiotic system, and it may be helpful to
locate this concept within the context of the history of ideas, albeit in a
very sketchy fashion. As we conceive of it, the term "semiotic" is framed
within a linear taxonomy of "physical — biological — social — semiotic";
and the term "system" is a shortened form of "system-&-process" …
Physical systems are just physical systems. Biological systems, however,
are not just biological systems; they are at once both biological and
physical. Social systems are all three: social, biological and physical.
This makes them increasingly difficult for us to comprehend. This is not
the same as saying that social systems are more complex than biological
ones, or biological than physical; there are too many different ways in
which things can be complex, for any such observation to make much sense.
But they are increasingly complex *in this particular respect*; and this
means that it is increasingly difficult to recognise the essential nature
of the phenomena concerned. …
A biological system is a physical system with the added component of
"life"; it is a living physical system. In comparable terms, a social
system is a biological system with the added component of "value" (which
explains the need for a synoptic approach, since value is something that is
manifested in forms of structure). A semiotic system, then, is a social
system with the added component of "meaning".
--
dr chris cléirigh
*Education is simply the soul of a society as it passes from one
generation to another.*
— Gilbert K. Chesterton
====================================
My Linguistics Sites
Thoughts That Cross My Mind
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/je9SCWLVXkUjPYLnQC6XFJf?domain=thoughts-that-cross-my-mind.blogspot.com.au>
Sysfling
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/yjJJCXLW2mUnqNPLgIVjsmi?domain=sysfling.blogspot.com.au>
Deploying Functional Grammar
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/_21HCYW8Noc3NZWyvF9CRYp?domain=deployingfunctionalgrammar.blogspot.com>
Martin's Model Of Paralanguage
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/wmplCZY1NqiMDRqWwFyB76e?domain=sflparalanguage.blogspot.com>
Informing Thoughts
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/PYQdC1WLPxcpkmAQ0hYQPgJ?domain=informingthoughts.blogspot.com.au>
Making Sense Of Meaning
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/PRDcC2xMQzikRG2D4TMoXPv?domain=meta-sfl-theory.blogspot.com>
Systemic Functional Linguistics
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/7FGhC3QNPBimGMgrPhYG5mS?domain=systemictheory.blogspot.com>
Sys-Func
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/KCBXC4QOPEiJmW2wnFNL7aH?domain=sys-func.blogspot.com.au>
The Thought Occurs
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/qaEIC5QPXJi0xKPrzf46Vdk?domain=thethoughtoccurs.blogspot.com.au>
…
Martin's Discourse Semantics, Register & Genre
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/76UBC6XQ4Lfo1964gFjKinG?domain=discourse-semantics.blogspot.com.au>
Thoughts That Didn't Occur
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/ftBlC71R2NTmQ6XB0hrXLBg?domain=master-bateman.blogspot.com.au>
…
Working With Discourse: Meaning Beyond The Clause
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/xWSwC81V0PTjzM5yACK3BCC?domain=workingwithdiscourse.blogspot.com.au>
The Cardiff Grammar
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/K5_JC91WPRTmMKWw6h2uDgl?domain=cardiff-grammar.blogspot.com.au>
Lexis As Most Local Context
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/OaQTC0YKPvi2MWXA9ijPatc?domain=lexisasmostlocalcontext.blogspot.com>
Factoring Out Structure
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/3obsCgZ0N1ilmW1zjT8Ysc_?domain=yaegandoran.blogspot.com>
Attitude In Systemic Functional Linguistics
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/4d9WCjZ1N7ij3J4xwCzJKnY?domain=attitude-in-sfl.blogspot.com.au>
====================================
