Oh Ross you have such a wicked sense of humour, had to laugh at your "Gel, damn you!" comment. I'm not an experienced soaper but I still use thermometers, but I am an experienced baker and I measure as much as possible on electronic scales, I'm quite pedantic about those sorts of things (you have to be accurate with baking). Cheers Louise PS I live in Auckland, Kim where do you live? If you live in or around Auckland I suggest you do one of Gina's soapmaking courses (coming up soon I believe) that's how I started. I'd post a picture of Ross's beautiful boxes but not sure if we can given previous email from administrator. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is sponsored by http://www.soapcraft.co.nz - supplier of raw ingredients. To unsubscribe from this list go to //www.freelists.org/list/soapcraft/ enter your email address and choose unsubscribe. Or you can send an email to soapcraft-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with unsubscribe in the subject line. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------