Now there's an interesting challenge! Happy to try and take it on. (Smile) George. -----Original Message----- From: sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dale Lieser Sent: 18 December 2011 12:41 To: sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sib-access] Re: Appearance of a Cross-Staff Note Thanks, George. Rest assured, your description compares as fine artistry to what I myself could come up with. <grin> Perhaps the blind among us on this list will combine to create a drawing of what you describe, and you can tell us how it measures up. How 'bout that?! -----Original Message----- From: sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of George Bell Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 7:19 AM To: sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sib-access] Re: Appearance of a Cross-Staff Note Hi Dale, I'm no musician, but have looked this up to see how they visually appear, so please don't laugh at my crude description. If you start with three notes tied on the upper stave, but want the middle note on the lower stave, the note is simply dragged down to the lower stave. The vertical line between the note tie at the top, and the note itself is simply extended. The alternative method shown is like adding a middle C where the note is shown with a short horizontal line through it, except that you add what I would perhaps call blank short lines under one another going down, until you reach the point there you want the actual note to be. I gather this is the preferred method for piano scores. But of course it causes in increased gap between the top and bottom staves. I'm sorry if this is a very crude description, but the best I can think of as a fully sighted person with little practical playing knowledge other than piano some 40 - 50 years ago. George. -----Original Message----- From: sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dale Lieser Sent: 17 December 2011 22:32 To: sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sib-access] Re: Appearance of a Cross-Staff Note OK. Thank you, sir. -----Original Message----- From: sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Farfar on Laptop Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 5:19 PM To: sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sib-access] Re: Appearance of a Cross-Staff Note Dale, According to the text, it is something we can do, but should consult with a sighted person afterwards. The manual indicates adding all the notes to the staff with the greatest population, then highlighting the multiple notes to move to the other staff. Then use the Cross-beaming (I think it's in the notes menu) to move the selection. Necessary stem positions and beams are created as needed. Collisions (at least in Sib 5) may still be an issue if there are other notes nearby. Dave Carlson Sent from my Dell Latitude E6520 using Windows 7, San Francisco Bay Area ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Lieser" <dale.lieser@xxxxxxxxx> To: <sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 14:08 Subject: [sib-access] Re: Appearance of a Cross-Staff Note Dave, It does help. I had looked through that section of the manual, but still wasn't clear on what the resulting notation would look like or, more to the point, whether it is something we can accomplish without assistance. Dale -----Original Message----- From: sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Farfar on Laptop Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 4:40 PM To: sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sib-access] Re: Appearance of a Cross-Staff Note Dale, There's some good description in the Sib 5 Reference manual, section 2.5 Beaming. Note that in this manual they are usually referred to as "Cross-staff beaming" rather than simply as cross-staff notes. In my further recollection now that I've read the manual, crossing the staff from one note to the next without any beam isn't an issue. I think it can be enhanced by using a slur or if more appropriate a line to show connectivity and encourage the idea that the hands are switching. In the case where a beam is necessary (eighth, sixteenth, etc) the beam is placed on both the up and down stems of the two successive notes, either level or slanted depending on how much of a jump there is in the pitch. So for example going from the bass staff to the treble staff with two eighth notes in succession, you have a normal note head with a stem to its right, pointing up ending at a beam toward the right. Then the treble note stem connects to that same beam and goes upward to the note head on the treble staff, the glob to the right of the stem. Hope this helps a bit. Dave Carlson Sent from my Dell Latitude E6520 using Windows 7, San Francisco Bay Area ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Lieser" <dale.lieser@xxxxxxxxx> To: <sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 13:25 Subject: [sib-access] Re: Appearance of a Cross-Staff Note Sounds good, Dave. Thanks. If anyone else has descriptions, too, the more the merrier. Dale -----Original Message----- From: sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Farfar on Laptop Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 4:23 PM To: sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sib-access] Re: Appearance of a Cross-Staff Note Dale, I'm thinking that the stem extends to the other staff, and that there's another note head at the other end, on that staff, with any necessary flags in-between. Not positive on this, but I'm pretty sure I've seen this type of note construction in my past. Dave Carlson Sent from my Dell Latitude E6520 using Windows 7, San Francisco Bay Area ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Lieser" <dale.lieser@xxxxxxxxx> To: <sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 12:59 Subject: [sib-access] Appearance of a Cross-Staff Note Hello Everyone, A couple of weeks ago we got into a discussion of Cross-staff notes. I know how to create them, but I also would like to know what they look like. Is it just that the stem is long enough to stretch into the other staff? Thanks for taking the time to respond. Dale If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the single word, unsubscribe - in the Subject line to: sib-access-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the single word, unsubscribe - in the Subject line to: sib-access-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the single word, unsubscribe - in the Subject line to: sib-access-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the single word, unsubscribe - in the Subject line to: sib-access-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the single word, unsubscribe - in the Subject line to: sib-access-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the single word, unsubscribe - in the Subject line to: sib-access-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the single word, unsubscribe - in the Subject line to: sib-access-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the single word, unsubscribe - in the Subject line to: sib-access-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the single word, unsubscribe - in the Subject line to: sib-access-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx If you wish to unsubscribe, send a blank message with the single word, unsubscribe - in the Subject line to: sib-access-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx