Can someone explain to me why do we need 175pf per driver to support a 50 ohm driver into a 50 ohm transmission line load ? Thanks, Chris -----Original Message----- From: Zabinski, Patrick J. [mailto:zabinski.patrick@xxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:37 AM To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: on chip decoupling for Off chip drivers Himanshu, I searched the literature about a year ago, and I was not able to find anything. In its place, we performed a simulation-based study to determine how much on-chip decoupling was needed to sufficiently decouple output drivers (full-swing CMOS drivers with 50 ohm output impedance driving a 50 ohm transmission line into a high impedance load). Using a criteria of 10% max ripple on the on-chip VDD supply and including packaging parasitics (both signal and power), we determined we needed roughly 175 pF per output driver. For reference, common CMOS technologies today offer about 5 fF/um^2 in gate capacitance (typically much higher than MIM or well capacitance), so we needed about 175,000/5 = 35,000 um^2, or about 500 um by 70 um decoupling cap area for each output driver. This is a tremendous amount of real estate, so we opted to use a combination of on-chip decoupling (for high-freq) and off-chip decoupling (for low freq). One interesting point to note: when we first got our simulations to run, we had a rather large value inductor model for the wire bonds, and the on-chip caps resonated with the wire bonds at nearly the same frequency as our signals. It was not a pretty site. We took the time (i.e., cost) to find ways of shortening our wires and adding more of them to reduce the inductance (i.e., push the resonant freq up higher). Pat > Hello, > > I am looking for some literature on decoupling > capacitor requirements for off-chip drivers. The > decoupling capacitor is to be placed inside the CMOS > chip. > > Any inputs will be appreciated. > > Thanks > > Himanshu Arora ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu