A very good friend of mine of many years is a dentist (and of course I go to
him). Near as we can figure the average dentist makes twice what the average
engineer makes, and works a lot less hours. I have a modest house and he has
two huge houses (one with an indoor pool; the houses are next door to each
other, connected by a corridor he built). He also takes private hunting trips
overseas (which I could never afford) and has heads of all kinds of exotic
large animals mounted in his office. (I think about him a lot lately with all
the recent press about that dentist who killed the famous lion in Africa!)
I have 4 kids and he strongly encouraged all of them to go into dentistry. My
kids are all grown now and none of them went into dentistry, they had no
interest in it. My dentist himself has 6 kids (all grown up like mine), tried
to get his own kids to follow in his footsteps, but none of them was interested
either.
Funny thing, none of my kids went into engineering either! And none of them
like math. (They LOOK a lot like me, I THINK they are probably my kids, haha!)
Go figure, when I was a kid math was my favorite subject ever since I was old
enough to remember. Then in junior high I got interested in physics and
electronics.
It's hard to work in a field and be good at it when you have no passion for it.
Mort
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Ken Cantrell
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 1:36 PM
To: joel@xxxxxxxxxx; 'Ken Cantrell'
Cc: twesterh@xxxxxxxxxx; 'SI-List'
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: commodity
Dental school would have been a better option:) However, I find teeth quite
boring, and unfortunately, have a passion for engineering.
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Joel Brown
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 11:17 AM
To: Ken Cantrell
Cc: twesterh@xxxxxxxxxx; SI-List
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: commodity
I will have a crack at this.
I graduated in 1979 with a BSEE and have been working hard ever since.
When i went to school, engineering was thought of as being the hardest major
and only the smartest and brightest would even attempt it.
It was also thought that secure high paying jobs would be waiting for those
who did make it through engineering school.
I think that was true at the time but at some point engineering became a
race to the bottom and in general yes it is now a commodity.
Not only that but it can be outsourced to other countries, foreign workers
in U.S.A. on H1B visas and consultants.
Earlier in my career there were benefits like salary increases, pensions and
401K matching, now you are lucky to have a job.
I work for a small company and wear a lot of hats. I do SI and EMI part
time. I certainly am not an expert in either and there are times I need to
talk with one.
I certainly don't use them to "do my work for me", I try to understand SI
and EMI as much as I can and consider SI one of the most fascinating and
interesting subjects.
Also as you know SI tools can be very expensive and its hard for a small
company to pay for them.
I think it is certainly possible to design and manufacture a successful
product with less than stellar SI engineering by following a certain set of
design rules and hopefully doing some amount of simulation.
The risk of a problem is higher, but top management accepts that much easier
than spending a lot of money on expensive SI software, the time involved in
using it during a project and expensive test equipment. If somebody going to
college today asked me if they should go into engineering I would say only
do it if you really want to and have a passion for it, otherwise do what
ever it takes to become a dentist.
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 9:14 AM, Ken Cantrell <ken@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Todd, et al -work for
For all of us gray beards ( or getting there), the trend on the List
has shifted from "get input from a world class SI Engineer", to "do my
me". The old paradigm/assumption was that you would do "due diligence"
before you submitted a question. Do your homework first. This has by
and large disappeared. A lot of people don't even consult their
product or software FAE first. Or more absurdly, few seem to know how
to even google anymore. There are exceptions of course, but the
problem is that they are exceptions, outliers in the distribution.
There are no stupid questions. I would modify this to there are no
stupid questions if you have done your research first. Right now,
there are a lot of stupid questions, and a lot of lazy "SI" engineers.
Those of you, young or old, that do due diligence are exempted from
the above.
Keeping it 100,
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of Todd Westerhoff
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 9:24 AM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: commodity
Istvan,
I'd like to pose a counter-question.
Are automotive mechanics a commodity?
And if so, why is an affordable, affable, available master mechanic
such a rare find?
Todd.
Todd Westerhoff
VP, Semiconductor Relations
Signal Integrity Software Inc. . www.sisoft.com
6 Clock Tower Place . Suite 250 . Maynard, MA 01754
(978) 461-0449 x124 . twesterh@xxxxxxxxxx
"I want to live like that"
-Sidewalk Prophets
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Istvan Nagy
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2015 2:26 AM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] commodity
Hi,
Did signal integrity engineering become a commodity?
Or is this trend about to slap someone in the face?
I thought it used to be a professor or scientist job for the best and
brightest, but nowadays all companies keep hiring people for their SI
teams in large quantities. Most job postings are like "fresh graduate
with 3yr experience", that's all that's required. The "expert" is not
part of the equation anymore?
Did it become that simple that any fresh graduate can do what 10 years
ago only the smartest people could do?
I got quotes from some service/contractor companies doing SI
simulations for us on their Ansoft tools (for a lot of money), but
"what to simulate"
or "how to interpret the results" was either not covered or was
seriously misguided.
The same might have happened to "engineering" some years earlier. Is
it the same, or this time it is different?
Some threads here on si-list in recent years seem (to me) to reflect
that too.
Regards,
Istvan Nagy
(I am not really an SI-engineer, but a HW/product/board designer)
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.avast.com_antivirus&d=AwIDAg&c=IV_clAzoPDE253xZdHuilRgztyh_RiV3wUrLrDQYWSI&r=7jlAzEFaTimGkXoFNcRNFLupVgbx0gh-NExFZTIY064&m=7Iw2QIzA6KgR-m569r1dxJEkGZmrGEsL62n_egT1PZY&s=2MaR6o7LLzwFxif6oKOwNCqDZINnTZjLHHHD7PJDA74&e=
------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.freelists.org_webpage_si-2Dlist&d=AwIDAg&c=IV_clAzoPDE253xZdHuilRgztyh_RiV3wUrLrDQYWSI&r=7jlAzEFaTimGkXoFNcRNFLupVgbx0gh-NExFZTIY064&m=7Iw2QIzA6KgR-m569r1dxJEkGZmrGEsL62n_egT1PZY&s=PDp8dDDYaJcQP26j9AaQbtJLuquncMPLt0nVrny2Jpg&e=
For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
List forum is accessible at:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__tech.groups.yahoo.com_group_si-2Dlist&d=AwIDAg&c=IV_clAzoPDE253xZdHuilRgztyh_RiV3wUrLrDQYWSI&r=7jlAzEFaTimGkXoFNcRNFLupVgbx0gh-NExFZTIY064&m=7Iw2QIzA6KgR-m569r1dxJEkGZmrGEsL62n_egT1PZY&s=ZJwxySV7ocuasi9KsPTNHE-1J1jLqeSIKCCkWcmH2UY&e=
List archives are viewable at:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.freelists.org_archives_si-2Dlist&d=AwIDAg&c=IV_clAzoPDE253xZdHuilRgztyh_RiV3wUrLrDQYWSI&r=7jlAzEFaTimGkXoFNcRNFLupVgbx0gh-NExFZTIY064&m=7Iw2QIzA6KgR-m569r1dxJEkGZmrGEsL62n_egT1PZY&s=57eAO35RzbBKqpDrXABWDFGcWMNJlPPHzMKxZ7pssj0&e=
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.qsl.net_wb6tpu&d=AwIDAg&c=IV_clAzoPDE253xZdHuilRgztyh_RiV3wUrLrDQYWSI&r=7jlAzEFaTimGkXoFNcRNFLupVgbx0gh-NExFZTIY064&m=7Iw2QIzA6KgR-m569r1dxJEkGZmrGEsL62n_egT1PZY&s=H8blSSkd4loa1Ym5hDqjpgmx7bpHwTEp2R8-WsLv4R4&e=
------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.freelists.org_webpage_si-2Dlist&d=AwIDAg&c=IV_clAzoPDE253xZdHuilRgztyh_RiV3wUrLrDQYWSI&r=7jlAzEFaTimGkXoFNcRNFLupVgbx0gh-NExFZTIY064&m=7Iw2QIzA6KgR-m569r1dxJEkGZmrGEsL62n_egT1PZY&s=PDp8dDDYaJcQP26j9AaQbtJLuquncMPLt0nVrny2Jpg&e=
For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
List forum is accessible at:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__tech.groups.yahoo.com_group_si-2Dlist&d=AwIDAg&c=IV_clAzoPDE253xZdHuilRgztyh_RiV3wUrLrDQYWSI&r=7jlAzEFaTimGkXoFNcRNFLupVgbx0gh-NExFZTIY064&m=7Iw2QIzA6KgR-m569r1dxJEkGZmrGEsL62n_egT1PZY&s=ZJwxySV7ocuasi9KsPTNHE-1J1jLqeSIKCCkWcmH2UY&e=
List archives are viewable at:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.freelists.org_archives_si-2Dlist&d=AwIDAg&c=IV_clAzoPDE253xZdHuilRgztyh_RiV3wUrLrDQYWSI&r=7jlAzEFaTimGkXoFNcRNFLupVgbx0gh-NExFZTIY064&m=7Iw2QIzA6KgR-m569r1dxJEkGZmrGEsL62n_egT1PZY&s=57eAO35RzbBKqpDrXABWDFGcWMNJlPPHzMKxZ7pssj0&e=
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.qsl.net_wb6tpu&d=AwIDAg&c=IV_clAzoPDE253xZdHuilRgztyh_RiV3wUrLrDQYWSI&r=7jlAzEFaTimGkXoFNcRNFLupVgbx0gh-NExFZTIY064&m=7Iw2QIzA6KgR-m569r1dxJEkGZmrGEsL62n_egT1PZY&s=H8blSSkd4loa1Ym5hDqjpgmx7bpHwTEp2R8-WsLv4R4&e=
------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.freelists.org_webpage_si-2Dlist&d=AwIDAg&c=IV_clAzoPDE253xZdHuilRgztyh_RiV3wUrLrDQYWSI&r=7jlAzEFaTimGkXoFNcRNFLupVgbx0gh-NExFZTIY064&m=7Iw2QIzA6KgR-m569r1dxJEkGZmrGEsL62n_egT1PZY&s=PDp8dDDYaJcQP26j9AaQbtJLuquncMPLt0nVrny2Jpg&e=
For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
List forum is accessible at:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__tech.groups.yahoo.com_group_si-2Dlist&d=AwIDAg&c=IV_clAzoPDE253xZdHuilRgztyh_RiV3wUrLrDQYWSI&r=7jlAzEFaTimGkXoFNcRNFLupVgbx0gh-NExFZTIY064&m=7Iw2QIzA6KgR-m569r1dxJEkGZmrGEsL62n_egT1PZY&s=ZJwxySV7ocuasi9KsPTNHE-1J1jLqeSIKCCkWcmH2UY&e=
List archives are viewable at:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.freelists.org_archives_si-2Dlist&d=AwIDAg&c=IV_clAzoPDE253xZdHuilRgztyh_RiV3wUrLrDQYWSI&r=7jlAzEFaTimGkXoFNcRNFLupVgbx0gh-NExFZTIY064&m=7Iw2QIzA6KgR-m569r1dxJEkGZmrGEsL62n_egT1PZY&s=57eAO35RzbBKqpDrXABWDFGcWMNJlPPHzMKxZ7pssj0&e=
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.qsl.net_wb6tpu&d=AwIDAg&c=IV_clAzoPDE253xZdHuilRgztyh_RiV3wUrLrDQYWSI&r=7jlAzEFaTimGkXoFNcRNFLupVgbx0gh-NExFZTIY064&m=7Iw2QIzA6KgR-m569r1dxJEkGZmrGEsL62n_egT1PZY&s=H8blSSkd4loa1Ym5hDqjpgmx7bpHwTEp2R8-WsLv4R4&e=
