Last time I checked, 1G and 2G FCAL disk are all 150ohm differential. I worked in a storage company, does that answer your question. -----Original Message----- From: Dan Bostan [mailto:dbostan@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:36 AM To: Chris Cheng; scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; michael.mirmak@xxxxxxxxx Cc: Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Re: Which layer is better for GHz signals How many times you need to route a 150 diff. pair? This impedance is very unusual. You have a point with EMI and the return current. /dan --- Chris Cheng <Chris.Cheng@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > There are practical reasons why microstrip is > preferred. Try to route 150ohm differential traces > in a lot of stripline layers and maintaining a thin > PCB and you will know what I mean. > I never have problem with EMI with clocks, diff or > single ended pairs on microstrip. Like I said many > times, maintaining your current return is the key. > ________________________________ >=20 > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of > Scott McMorrow > Sent: Thu 8/4/2005 10:38 AM > To: michael.mirmak@xxxxxxxxx > Cc: dbostan@xxxxxxxxx; > Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx; > si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Which layer is better for GHz > signals >=20 >=20 >=20 > Michael > Even with minimal differential trace coupling, the > radiated fields from > the two sides of a differential pair will cancel > each other in the far > field. Generally, it is the common mode components > of differential > signals that cause significant radiation. >=20 > regards, >=20 > scott >=20 > Scott McMorrow > Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC > 121 North River Drive > Narragansett, RI 02882 > (401) 284-1827 Business > (401) 284-1840 Fax >=20 > http://www.teraspeed.com >=20 > Teraspeed=AE is the registered service mark of > Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC >=20 >=20 >=20 > Mirmak, Michael wrote: >=20 > >Dan, > > > >Isn't the amount of EMI reduction from the use of > "differential" traces > >dependent on the amount of coupling between them?=20 > From the PC-based > >designs I have seen recently, the coupling between > microstrip traces is > >very weak compared to the coupling to the reference > plane. The traces > >are more-or-less single-ended in this kind of case, > with all the EMI > >radiation effects this implies. > > > >Are the traces you have seen very strongly coupled? > > > >- Michael Mirmak > > Intel Corp. > > Chair, EIA IBIS Open Forum > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > >On Behalf Of Dan Bostan > >Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:33 AM > >To: Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx; > si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Which layer is better for > GHz signals > > > >In general, it is better to use inner layers for > high speed signals, for > >EMI reasons. However, since the GHz traces are > differential, the > >radiated field is not as strong as in the case of > single ended traces. > >>From my experience, EMI was not a factor in > routing such signals. Which > >means, that your other concerns should dictate the > layer. > >My two cents. > >/dan > > > > > > > >--- Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: > > > >=20 > > > >>Hi All, > >>For my next design I am considering a different > >>approach to route the GHz=3D20 > >>signals. I would like to know the views of other > >>esteemed SI experts on=3D20 > >>the following two approaches. > >>=3D20 > >>A) Current Design: Differential traces are routed > on > >>Top and Bottom=3D20 > >>layers. The advantage of this approach is that I > >>can route one pair=3D20 > >>without using any vias, and I get more usable > board > >>space. The=3D20 > >>disadvantage is that traces on Top and Bottom > layers > >>have greater=3D20 > >>impedance discontinuities due to uneven plating > and > >>soldermask=3D20 > >>application.=3D20 > >>=3D20 > >>B) Proposed Design: Differential traces will be > >>routed on the inner=3D20 > >>layers. The advantage here is that the trace > >>impedance will be more=3D20 > >>uniform as the trace will be covered with > dielectric > >>on both sides, and=3D20 > >>there will be no plating. The disadvantage is > that=3D20 > >>I will have to use=3D20 > >>two vias on each trace, and I will have less > routing > >>space. > >>=3D20 > >>The reason for considering the new approach is > >>because of the EMI issues=3D20 > >>with the previous design traced to common-mode > >>currents. I am not sure=3D20 > >>which design will have less common-mode effect, as > >>one design has=3D20 > >>discontinuities due to plating/soldermask whereas > >>the other design has=3D20 > >>discontinuities due to extra vias.=3D20 > >>=3D20 > >>The trace length is about 2 inches. > >>=3D20 > >>Regards, Ravinder > >>Server PCB Development > >>Hitachi Global Storage Technologies > >>=3D20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in > the Subject field >=20 > or to administer your membership from a web page, go > to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list >=20 > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the > Subject field >=20 > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > =20 > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ >=20 > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org >=20 > List archives are viewable at: =20 > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are > viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > =20 >=20 >=20 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20 http://mail.yahoo.com=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu