[SI-LIST] Re: Where are IBIS models with SSO support ?
- From: "Istvan Nagy" <buenos@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "Scott McMorrow" <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:42:51 -0000
scott,
if you are a board designer, then i think the chip manufacturers dont want
you to know about the existence of this kind of problems (fixable only on
package or chip) with their chips. most of the cases...
Istvan Nagy
Concurrent Technologies Plc.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott McMorrow" <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Powell, Jon N" <jon.n.powell@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <johndp@xxxxxxxx>; "Muranyi, Arpad" <Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx>;
<si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 6:28 PM
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Where are IBIS models with SSO support ?
> Jon,
> Whether an SSO problem can be fixed by a PCB designer really depends on
> the transfer impedance between the die and the PCB at the frequency of
> interest. However, even if the PCB or system designer cannot fix the
> problem, don't you think it would be a good idea to know if a problem
> exists in the first place? That's where modeling and simulation support
> is necessary.
>
> regards,
>
> scott
>
>
> Scott McMorrow
> Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
> 121 North River Drive
> Narragansett, RI 02882
> (401) 284-1827 Business
> (401) 284-1840 Fax
>
> http://www.teraspeed.com
>
> TeraspeedŽ is the registered service mark of
> Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
>
>
>
> Powell, Jon N wrote:
>> And which simulators support it.
>>
>> But in my mind, the big question is, what are you going to do with the
>> data?
>> If you have an SSO problem, you can't really fix it, can you? That
>> problem needs to be fixed with on package de-coupling or some other
>> change the IC designer needs to implement.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> On Behalf Of johndp@xxxxxxxx
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 9:01 AM
>> To: Muranyi, Arpad; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Where are IBIS models with SSO support ?
>>
>> Chris's question is I believe "where are the models to support the
>> standard ?"
>> It's fine having IBIS 5.0, but which vendors are actively supplying
>> models that support SSO simulations (or other features of the standard)?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>
>>> Chris,
>>>
>>> I am a little puzzled by your question, because I you didn't
>>> specify what feature you are looking for in the IBIS model
>>> that is specifically there for SSO simulation? If you are you
>>> referring to BIRD95 related material, then one of the replies
>>> to this post is correct, that became available in IBIS 5.0
>>> which is relatively new, we don't even have a checker program
>>> yet. This may be partially the reason there are no 5.0 models
>>> available yet.
>>>
>>> Arpad
>>> ===============================================================
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>> On Behalf Of Chris Cheng
>>> Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 8:58 PM
>>> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Where are IBIS models with SSO support ?
>>>
>>> I promise this will have a civilized discussion :-D but I have been
>>> looking everywhere for IBIS models that can support SSO simulation (4.1
>>> or 4.2 ??) but they are no where to be found. In particular I am looking
>>> for DDR2/3 I/O. Am I the only one that see SSO as a performance limit in
>>> DDR buses ?
>>> There are plenty of vendors giving out IBIS model with IV curves but
>>> none seem to support SSO modeling. I can't even remember what year we
>>> had the last discussion about IBIS SSO support but I am sure that was
>>> long time ago.
>>>
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