[SI-LIST] Re: Where are IBIS models with SSO support ?
- From: "Powell, Jon N" <jon.n.powell@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx" <Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx>, "buenos@xxxxxxxxxxx" <buenos@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:13:46 -0800
We may be thinking about different levels of abstraction on the model.
I mean, one way to think about it is, if there is NO SSO problem, you would be
wasting your time creating a model and providing all of that unused data.
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:00 AM
To: buenos@xxxxxxxxxxx; scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Where are IBIS models with SSO support ?
Istvan,
You may be right, but which hurts the chip manufacture more? Having the system
designer aware of the problem so (s)he can design around the problem or the
designer finding the problem after the system is designed and built and having
to re-design with schedule slippages?
And this discussion pre-supposes that the chip manufacturer did the work to
find about any problems to begin with. Do you think this is always true?
Aubrey Sparkman
PG Signal Integrity Team
Dell, Inc.
Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx
(512) 723-3592
"Laughing at our mistakes can lengthen our own life. Laughing at someone else's
can shorten it." - Cullen Hightower.
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Istvan Nagy
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:43 PM
To: Scott McMorrow
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Where are IBIS models with SSO support ?
scott,
if you are a board designer, then i think the chip manufacturers dont want you
to know about the existence of this kind of problems (fixable only on package
or chip) with their chips. most of the cases...
Istvan Nagy
Concurrent Technologies Plc.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott McMorrow" <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Powell, Jon N" <jon.n.powell@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <johndp@xxxxxxxx>; "Muranyi, Arpad" <Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx>;
<si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 6:28 PM
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Where are IBIS models with SSO support ?
> Jon,
> Whether an SSO problem can be fixed by a PCB designer really depends
> on the transfer impedance between the die and the PCB at the frequency
> of interest. However, even if the PCB or system designer cannot fix
> the problem, don't you think it would be a good idea to know if a
> problem exists in the first place? That's where modeling and
> simulation support is necessary.
>
> regards,
>
> scott
>
>
> Scott McMorrow
> Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
> 121 North River Drive
> Narragansett, RI 02882
> (401) 284-1827 Business
> (401) 284-1840 Fax
>
> http://www.teraspeed.com
>
> TeraspeedŽ is the registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting
> Group LLC
>
>
>
> Powell, Jon N wrote:
>> And which simulators support it.
>>
>> But in my mind, the big question is, what are you going to do with
>> the data?
>> If you have an SSO problem, you can't really fix it, can you? That
>> problem needs to be fixed with on package de-coupling or some other
>> change the IC designer needs to implement.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> On Behalf Of johndp@xxxxxxxx
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 9:01 AM
>> To: Muranyi, Arpad; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Where are IBIS models with SSO support ?
>>
>> Chris's question is I believe "where are the models to support the
>> standard ?"
>> It's fine having IBIS 5.0, but which vendors are actively supplying
>> models that support SSO simulations (or other features of the standard)?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>
>>> Chris,
>>>
>>> I am a little puzzled by your question, because I you didn't specify
>>> what feature you are looking for in the IBIS model that is
>>> specifically there for SSO simulation? If you are you referring to
>>> BIRD95 related material, then one of the replies to this post is
>>> correct, that became available in IBIS 5.0 which is relatively new,
>>> we don't even have a checker program yet. This may be partially the
>>> reason there are no 5.0 models available yet.
>>>
>>> Arpad
>>> ===============================================================
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>> On Behalf Of Chris Cheng
>>> Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 8:58 PM
>>> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Where are IBIS models with SSO support ?
>>>
>>> I promise this will have a civilized discussion :-D but I have been
>>> looking everywhere for IBIS models that can support SSO simulation
>>> (4.1 or 4.2 ??) but they are no where to be found. In particular I
>>> am looking for DDR2/3 I/O. Am I the only one that see SSO as a
>>> performance limit in DDR buses ?
>>> There are plenty of vendors giving out IBIS model with IV curves but
>>> none seem to support SSO modeling. I can't even remember what year
>>> we had the last discussion about IBIS SSO support but I am sure that
>>> was long time ago.
>>>
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