Patrick, I believe that you are correct; I ignored thermal noise in my discussion. I concur with your remarks re deterministic jitter. Mike Zabinski, Patrick J. wrote: > Andy, > > I believe the answer is yes; you will see added > jitter (the real questions are how much, what type, > and do you care). > > Specific to random jitter (which most often > follows Gaussian distributions), jitter is the result > of voltage noise on the signal. Accordingly, any > resistive element (i.e., lossy element) will > inject some (usually small, inconsequential) > amount of random noise on the signal, which > presents itself as random jitter. My understanding > is that this jitter is usually small enough that > you don't care, so this is more of a theoretical > discussion that practical (until we see 100's of > GHz signals or data being transmitted over very-lossy > lines). > > Specific to deterministic jitter, the discussion > needs to be specific to the type of signal > you're passing through it. In brief, transmission > line losses are frequency dependent, which will > shifts data transitions (i.e., rising and falling > edges) differently depending upon the frequency > content of the edge. > > If the signal is a clock that is exactly > repetative (i.e., same exact duty cycle > throughout with no change in phase, frequency, > etc.), then the effective frequency content of > each pulse is the same. Accordingly, each > transition will be delayed by the same amount. > As a result, you will not see any added > deterministic jitter. > > If the signal is a data pattern where the pulses > changes in width, then the effective frequency > content of each pulse will vary, which in turn > will shift the edges by varying amounts, which will > manifest itself as deterministic jitter (i.e., > data dependent jitter, or intersymbol interference). > Depending upon several factors, this type of > jitter can be significant. > > Pat > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Andy Kuo [mailto:andyk@xxxxxxxxxx] >>Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 7:57 PM >>To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>Subject: [SI-LIST] Transmission Line + Jitter >> >> >>Hi All, >> >>I have a basic question to ask: >> >>Assuming I have one single transmission line and it is >>perfectly matched >>and properly terminated. This transmission line is lossy. I >>am applying >>a square signal through the transmission line >> >>Will I see any jitter in the edge crossing? >> >>Regards, >>Andy >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >>To unsubscribe from si-list: >>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field >> >>or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >>//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list >> >>For help: >>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field >> >>List FAQ wiki page is located at: >> http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ >> >>List technical documents are available at: >> http://www.si-list.org >> >>List archives are viewable at: >> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >>or at our remote archives: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages >>Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: >> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > > List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu