[SI-LIST] Re: Theory v. practice, following Re: DesignCon quote

From: Faraydon Pakbaz <pakbazf@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <art_porter@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:53:55 -0500
The word accuracy is Fuzzy and Uncertain. There is no such thing as a
precise simulation
or model but it cannot be called inaccurate. Without out the color "white"
the color "black" is
meaningless. We rise and fall with simulation and models in Engineering and
Science. The
model and simulation is a window that we look at real system. Every
Simulation and model
is accurate to certain degree. To call modeling and simulation inaccurate
is misleading.


Regards;

Don Pakbaz

Silicon Solutions Engineering
IBM Systems & Technology Group



                                                                           
             <art_porter@agile                                             
             nt.com>                                                       
                                                                        To 
             03/31/2006 09:40          Faraydon                            
             AM                        Pakbaz/Burlington/IBM@IBMUS,        
                                       <brett.grossman@xxxxxxxxx>          
                                                                        cc 
                                       <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,            
                                       <si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>      
                                                                   Subject 
                                       RE: [SI-LIST] Re: Theory v.         
                                       practice, following Re: DesignCon   
                                       quote                               
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           




Of course models and simulations are inaccurate. That's the whole point. If
they were 100.00000% accurate they would be too complex to be useful and
would take forever to run. I'm reminded of the story of the man who was
visiting a country where the locals told him that at one time in the past
they had had a very detailed map that showed every mouse hole, every blade
of grass, very tree leaf, every speck of dust. The problem was that when
they unrolled the map it was bigger than the country. And not only that, it
was out of date within a millisecond.

Think about the abstractions we use all the time: R, L, and C. There really
are no such things as pure resistors, capacitors, or inductors in the real
world. There are electromagnetic waves and fields (or at least we think
there are). But if you had to use Maxwell's equations with an infinitely
fine spatial mesh to solve every circuit, we'd still be watching TV by
candlelight.

Art Porter
Agilent Technologies

-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Faraydon Pakbaz
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 6:52 PM
To: brett.grossman@xxxxxxxxx
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Theory v. practice, following Re: DesignCon quote

OK OK...Hold on a second happy quoters ....We are all exited and impressed
over something that is not a true or false statement but it is a
paradox....

Statements like:

"All simulations are wrong but some simulations are useful"

or

"All models are wrong but some models are useful"

make no sense consider the following:

  Epimenides was a Cretan who made one immortal statement: "All Cretans are
liars."

Did he told the truth or lied?

The answer is neither. Think about it.

When someone makes a statement about simulation and model like that, it
means he/she is a very
frustrated person( it happens all the time in signal integrity analysis).
If I want to have a perfect
model or perfect simulation, I need to model or include every variable in
my simulation or model.
So if I want to spend the time to do that, I might as well built the system
or design etc. I will save
lot of time to market and I will be a hero. Read "Kurt Godel"
incompleteness theorem. No axiomatic
system can be perfect because it will be self reflecting and will create
paradox. Bertrand Russell
and Alfred North Whitehead made such a false claim in their "Principia
Mathematica" and Godel
put the end to it. The art of matter is how to use 7 variables instead of
100 variables to get an insight
into the design or system by simulation. Take simulation and modeling
seriously. Very very seriously.

Regards;

Don Pakbaz

Silicon Solutions Engineering
IBM Systems & Technology Group




             "Grossman, Brett"
             <brett.grossman@i
             ntel.com>                                                  To
             Sent by:                  <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
             si-list-bounce@fr                                          cc
             eelists.org
                                                                   Subject
                                       [SI-LIST] Re: Theory v. practice,
             03/30/2006 07:32          following Re: DesignCon quote
             PM


             Please respond to
              brett.grossman






Amen, to see the quotes (I am a collector).

One of my favorites ( I would attribute to Scott McMorrow on this list
just because it was the first place I saw it).

Relating to the success of some who are perhaps not the most deserving.
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes"


-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Richard Feldman
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 1:42 PM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: schumach@xxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Theory v. practice, following Re: DesignCon quote

It's rare and refreshing to see an online quotation
with its attribution retained or restored!
Wikiquote (thanks to hint from Pat Zabinski) just helped me
to link an author to this old favorite:

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.=3D20
But, in practice, there is."

From Wikiquote
Jan L. A. van de Snepscheut (1953-1994), computer scientist and educator
This has also been attributed to Yogi Berra.

-Rich

> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Richard Schumacher
> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 12:56 PM
> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: DesignCon quote
>=3D20
> Here's a reference to an even older citation, which I can't now check:
> ..."[George] Box used it as a heading in a book chapter in 1979.=3D20
>=3D20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Zabinski, Patrick J.
> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 2:36 PM
> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: DesignCon quote
>=3D20
> I found a slightly different citation on WikiQuote, which suggests =
=3D3D
> George Box and Norman Draper had two phrasings ...
> Wherever it came from, I like it...
>=3D20
> Pat
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References:
- [SI-LIST] Re: Theory v. practice, following Re: DesignCon quote
  - From: art_porter
[SI-LIST] Re: Theory v. practice, following Re: DesignCon quote

Other related posts:
