OK OK...Hold on a second happy quoters ....We are all exited and impressed over something that is not a true or false statement but it is a paradox.... Statements like: "All simulations are wrong but some simulations are useful" or "All models are wrong but some models are useful" make no sense consider the following: Epimenides was a Cretan who made one immortal statement: "All Cretans are liars." Did he told the truth or lied? The answer is neither. Think about it. When someone makes a statement about simulation and model like that, it means he/she is a very frustrated person( it happens all the time in signal integrity analysis). If I want to have a perfect model or perfect simulation, I need to model or include every variable in my simulation or model. So if I want to spend the time to do that, I might as well built the system or design etc. I will save lot of time to market and I will be a hero. Read "Kurt Godel" incompleteness theorem. No axiomatic system can be perfect because it will be self reflecting and will create paradox. Bertrand Russell and Alfred North Whitehead made such a false claim in their "Principia Mathematica" and Godel put the end to it. The art of matter is how to use 7 variables instead of 100 variables to get an insight into the design or system by simulation. Take simulation and modeling seriously. Very very seriously. Regards; Don Pakbaz Silicon Solutions Engineering IBM Systems & Technology Group "Grossman, Brett" <brett.grossman@i ntel.com> To Sent by: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> si-list-bounce@fr cc eelists.org Subject [SI-LIST] Re: Theory v. practice, 03/30/2006 07:32 following Re: DesignCon quote PM Please respond to brett.grossman Amen, to see the quotes (I am a collector). One of my favorites ( I would attribute to Scott McMorrow on this list just because it was the first place I saw it). Relating to the success of some who are perhaps not the most deserving. "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes" -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Richard Feldman Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 1:42 PM To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc: schumach@xxxxxx Subject: [SI-LIST] Theory v. practice, following Re: DesignCon quote It's rare and refreshing to see an online quotation with its attribution retained or restored! Wikiquote (thanks to hint from Pat Zabinski) just helped me to link an author to this old favorite: "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.=3D20 But, in practice, there is." From Wikiquote Jan L. A. van de Snepscheut (1953-1994), computer scientist and educator This has also been attributed to Yogi Berra. -Rich > -----Original Message----- > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Richard Schumacher > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 12:56 PM > To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: DesignCon quote >=3D20 > Here's a reference to an even older citation, which I can't now check: > ..."[George] Box used it as a heading in a book chapter in 1979.=3D20 >=3D20 > -----Original Message----- > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Zabinski, Patrick J. > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 2:36 PM > To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: DesignCon quote >=3D20 > I found a slightly different citation on WikiQuote, which suggests = =3D3D > George Box and Norman Draper had two phrasings ... > Wherever it came from, I like it... >=3D20 > Pat ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: =20 //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu