[SI-LIST] Re: Straw poll and call for comments: Crowdsource IBIS model directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia?
- From: steve weir <weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 11:28:15 -0700
Jon, the idea is to provide a directory of available models, not a
repository for them.
Best Regards,
Steve.
Powell, Jon N wrote:
> Isn't there also a legal issue here?
> Who owns the IP or the copyright and who is going to be responsible for
> violation of said when a copy is kept in a database?
>
>
>
> Jon Powell
>
> EPSD Product SI
>
> 將
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of steve weir
> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 6:58 PM
> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; ibis@xxxxxxx; ibis-users@xxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Straw poll and call for comments: Crowdsource IBIS
> model directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia?
>
> Colin,
>
> Hosting is so cheap as to be a non-issue. Setting up the database
> mechanics is not particularly difficult either.
> The real cost is in the administration. In my opinion this needs people
> willing to serve as librarians who will act as the gate keepers so that
> the site is not overrun with junk.
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Steve.
>
> colin_warwick@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Thanks to everyone for the feedback and encouragement :-)
>>
>> There are several options each with pros and cons
>> * Web page with an appointed honorary librarian
>> * Wikis e.g. hosted and self-hosted http://www.wikimatrix.org/
>> * Discussion forums (bulletin boards) e.g. hosted and self-hosted
>> http://www.forummatrix.org/
>> * Email reflectors like the si-list //freelists.org
>> * Shared document/table like a Google Docs spreadsheet.
>> http://docs.google.com/
>> * Hybrids of the above like Google Wave http://wave.google.com which they
>> say is a "next generation" email/collaboration/documentation tool
>>
>> Here are some issues with each:
>> * Ease-of-use versus functionality: email is easy to use, but email
>> reflectors and forums have limited searchablity and it's hard to aggregate
>> threads of (possibility duplicative) conversations.
>> * WYSIWYG versus markup languages: some wikis and forums require you learn a
>> mark up language.
>> * "One truth" (conclusion) versus "Let a hundred flowers blossom"
>> (conversation) (yes, I do understand the irony of Mao Zedong's imperative):
>> ** Wikis attempt to arrive at some sort of consensus between the editors
>> on the readers' behalf (although there's usually a discussion page for
>> editors behind the "real" page for readers)
>> whereas
>> ** Discussion Forums let everyone voice their own opinion and each reader
>> has to plow through the threads to draw their own conclusion from the
>> (possibly heated) conversation.
>> * Reputation: How do you hold a contributor accountable for their
>> contribution? How exclude spam in?
>> * Privacy: How much info to do I have to submit to sign up? As a reader? As
>> a writer? How to prevent harvesting of personal info by nefarious agents?
>> * History/reversion: How do we track and undo "bad" edits? How to delete
>> "bad" postings?
>> * Who pays? There are plenty of "free" hosting sites, usually ad-funded. Do
>> we want an ad free site by paying to self-hosting fee? If so, how do we
>> split the check?
>> * Structured versus unstructured: Do you want a rigorous database schema
>> (specific column headings/fields for each row/record in (possibly
>> interlinked) tables)? Or more free form? If structured, how to come to a
>> consensus schema?
>> * Who runs the thing? What are the costs and benefits for the admin?
>>
>> I added a second straw poll to the bottom of:
>>
>> http://signal-integrity.tm.agilent.com/2010/crowdsource-ibis-models-directory/
>>
>> ...so you can vote for your favorite...
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> -- Colin Warwick
>> Signal Integrity Product Manager, Agilent EEsof EDA
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Howard Johnson
>> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 1:00 AM
>> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Straw poll and call for comments: Crowdsource IBIS
>> model directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia?
>>
>> Hey Colin,
>>
>> I think you are on to a good idea. Individual users spend way too much time
>> farting around trying to put together good IBIS models. Much of that effort
>> seems wasted.
>>
>> I'd like to see the list include some sort of "user voting" feature so the
>> readers of the list could see if other people found the model "useful".
>> Some "wiki" type tools allow that kind of feedback and I believe it would be
>> crucial, because I believe you will never get an official committee to vet
>> the models -- it has to be done through independent user evaluations.
>>
>> Good luck, and keep plugging on this idea, it's a good one.
>>
>> Yes, I went to your link and voted.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Dr. Howard Johnson, Signal Consulting Inc.,
>> tel +1 509-997-0505, howie03@xxxxxxxxxx
>> www.sigcon.com -- High-Speed Digital Design seminars, publications and films
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of steve weir
>> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 6:09 PM
>> To: colin_warwick@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Straw poll and call for comments: Crowdsource IBIS
>> model directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia?
>>
>> My view on the usefulness of such a directory all depends on how well the
>> directory would be maintained / policed and whether the directory would
>> include information that would indicate the model's likely usefulness.
>> There are a lot of IBIS ( HSPICE models as well for that matter ), that
>> aren't particularly useful. Many have not been verified in any way. Some
>> of them do not even parse.
>>
>> Anyway, if this is going to be undertaken, I would really like to see
>> something similar to the way that the FPGA vendors list IP cores.
>>
>> Target Model Manufacturer
>> Target Model Part Number
>> Free or pay model
>> Model basis: Raw original model, SPICE derived model, Measurement based
>> model IBIS version Passed parser or not w/ parser version Model verified or
>> not Link to model, or model supplier
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> colin_warwick@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Bottom line on top: Any interest in using and/or contributing to an IBIS
>>>
>>>
>> model directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia? Please vote in this
>> informal straw poll:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>> http://signal-integrity.tm.agilent.com/2010/crowdsource-ibis-models-director
>> y/
>>
>>
>>> ...and/or leave a comment there, and/or comment to this thread.
>>>
>>> Backstory: I posted the message below to the IBIS lists, but was
>>> disappointed that the response was fairly mute. So, I'm posting it
>>> here in the hope it will resonate with si-listers. (If you are also on
>>> the IBIS lists, this is a duplicate. Sorry!)
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> -- Colin Warwick
>>> Signal Integrity Product Manager, Agilent EEsof EDA
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: WARWICK,COLIN
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 11:59 AM
>>> To: IBIS-Interconnect; 'ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
>>> Subject: Straw poll and call for comments: Crowdsource IBIS model
>>>
>>>
>> directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia?
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I get several emails a month from customers asking "Is there an IBIS model
>>>
>>>
>> for XYZ part from ABC IC vendor". I usually point them at:
>>
>>
>>> http://www.teraspeed.com/ibis_resources.html
>>> http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis%20table/models.htm
>>>
>>> If the info is out-of-date (as is often the case), I ask them to do an
>>> advanced Google search like:
>>> http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=IBIS+site:someicvendordomain.c
>>> om
>>>
>>> (replace someicvendordomain.com with the IC vendor's domain,
>>> obviously)
>>>
>>> But I'm wondering if there's a better way than "spray and pray" Googling
>>>
>>>
>> or burdening a single librarian with hundreds of update requests.
>>
>>
>>> Sooo...How about crowdsourcing?
>>>
>>> "Crowd-what-ing," you say? Here's a definition from wikipedia:
>>>
>>> 'Crowdsourcing is a neologistic compound of Crowd and Outsourcing for the
>>>
>>>
>> act of taking tasks traditionally performed by an employee or contractor,
>> and outsourcing them to a group of people or community, through an "open
>> call" to a large group of people (a crowd) asking for contributions.'
>>
>>
>>> (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdsourcing )
>>>
>>> Specifically, I'm wondering if we should create a table off of the main
>>>
>>>
>> IBIS page on wikipedia:
>>
>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_Output_Buffer_Information_Specifica
>>> tion
>>>
>>> ...(or some other wiki) for IC vendors to update their info themselves. It
>>>
>>>
>> would look something like this prototype I cobbled together:
>>
>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Woz2/Input_Output_Buffer_Information
>>> _Specification/Table_of_IBIS_models
>>>
>>> Thoughts? Please vote in this informal straw poll:
>>>
>>> http://signal-integrity.tm.agilent.com/2010/crowdsource-ibis-models-di
>>> rectory/
>>>
>>> and/or leave a comment there, and/or comment to this thread.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> -- Colin Warwick
>>> Signal Integrity Product Manager, Agilent EEsof EDA
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Steve Weir
IPBLOX, LLC
150 N. Center St. #211
Reno, NV 89501
www.ipblox.com
(775) 299-4236 Business
(866) 675-4630 Toll-free
(707) 780-1951 Fax
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