[SI-LIST] Re: S-parameter of dcap
- From: AMEDEO Alexandre <alexandre.amedeo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: steve weir <weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx>, "si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:10:16 +0100
Hi Steve,
Under this criteria, you didn't use any bypass capacitor in your PDN?
So above wich criteria do you started to analyse your PDN precisely with Power
Integrity simulations???
Regards,
Alexandre AMEDEO
SI specialist
TC&S
Alexandre AMEDEO
Responsable Activités Intégrité de Signal
Thales Communications & Security S.A.
Phone: +33(0)2 41 64 84 06 - Fax: +33(0)2 41 64 58 72
mailto: alexandre.amedeo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Attention changement d'adresse en cours :
alexandre.amedeo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx devient alexandre.amedeo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
-----Message d'origine-----
De : si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] De la
part de steve weir
Envoyé : mercredi 18 janvier 2012 17:09
À : si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Objet : [SI-LIST] Re: S-parameter of dcap
Mike, the criteria I offered is safe. di/dts of under 1A/s do fine
without any bypass capacitors.
Regards,
Steve.
On 1/18/2012 5:29 AM, Mike Brown wrote:
> On 1/17/2012 10:01 AM, steve weir wrote:
>> It all depends on what level of accuracy that you want / need, and what
>> tools you are using. There are cap manufacturers who supply S parameter
>> models. Depending on the tool you are using, S parameters may or may
>> not be what you want. One tool from a major vendor will only deal with
>> a single L-R-C model.
>>
>> Modeling a PDN without considering inductance saves a lot of time. It
>> eliminates the need for bypass capacitors altogether. I highly
>> recommend it for designs with di/dt's below 1A/s.
>>
>> Steve.
> Steve, I think you need to find the /sarc key on your keyboard, lest
> someone take you seriously! ;-)
>
> Mike
>> On 1/17/2012 6:59 AM, Rohit MISHRA wrote:
>>> Friends,
>>> I am stuck in a problem so thought it would be better to take assistance
>>> from all you experts there :)
>>>
>>> Actually we need to extract s-sparameter of PDN network of one USB board.
>>> Board database(.brd) which we have got has all dcaps included and If I
>>> check capacitance model in database, it has just capacitance value but has
>>> no ESR& ESL mentioned.
>>>
>>> I have tried to find s-parameter of these MLCC dcaps so that I can add them
>>> in PDN extraction but my bad luck :( all I have got is SRF& ESR.
>>>
>>> Now my question is :
>>>
>>>
>>> 1) Do we really need to have s-parameter of dcap for accurate PDN
>>> extraction ?
>>>
>>> 2) If I use dcap spice model instead, do we really need to have ESL
>>> in that model. Can't we use just ESR& C in spice model ?
>>> My argument is that ESL of dcap which is mentioned in datasheet or one
>>> which we can calculate from SRF& capacitance is basically intrinsic/self
>>> inductance of capacitance lead which in MLCC case will always be much lower
>>> than mounting& spreading inductance So we shouldn't worry much about ESL
>>> of dcap while extracting PDN network.
>>>
>>> Do you see any problem in this argument ?
>>>
>>> Rgds,
>>> Rohit
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from si-list:
>>> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>>>
>>> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
>>> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>>>
>>> For help:
>>> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
>>>
>>>
>>> List technical documents are available at:
>>> http://www.si-list.net
>>>
>>> List archives are viewable at:
>>> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
>>>
>>> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
>>> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
>>>
>>>
>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from si-list:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>
> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>
> For help:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
>
>
> List technical documents are available at:
> http://www.si-list.net
>
> List archives are viewable at:
> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
>
> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
>
>
>
--
Steve Weir
IPBLOX, LLC
150 N. Center St. #211
Reno, NV 89501
www.ipblox.com
(775) 299-4236 Business
(866) 675-4630 Toll-free
(707) 780-1951 Fax
All contents Copyright (c)2012 IPBLOX, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
This e-mail may contain confidential material.
If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all records
and notify the sender.
------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
List technical documents are available at:
http://www.si-list.net
List archives are viewable at:
//www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
List technical documents are available at:
http://www.si-list.net
List archives are viewable at:
//www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
Other related posts:
