[SI-LIST] Re: Skin depth,copper,gold

  • From: "Orin Laney" <olaney@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <mahesh@xxxxxxxxx>, "'Scott McMorrow'" <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 07:02:31 -0700

HF loss goes up, see this app note:
http://www.polarinstruments.com/support/si/AP8155.html
It is statistically unlikely that there will be enough difference in trace
roughness to unbalance a differential pair on that basis alone.

Orin

-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Mahesh@cmrda
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 10:27 PM
To: Scott McMorrow; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Skin depth,copper,gold

If the tracks are uneven (vertical kinks) as happens sometimes in poorly
manufactured HAL boards,  then in case of skin effect will not the wave
travel more distance. And if so, it could lead to mismatches in differential
pair signals.  Can this be significant ?

Mahesh

On 08-10-2013 08:24, Scott McMorrow wrote:
> 0.5 to 0.125 micron
>
> http://www.ipc.org/4.0_knowledge/4.1_standards/ipc-4552-amendment-1_6-
> 12-2012.pdf
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Mahesh@cmrda <mahesh@xxxxxxxxx 
> <mailto:mahesh@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
>
>     At 10 Ghz , in gold skin effect depth is 0.7 microns
>     What is the gold plating thickness in ENIG ?
>
>
>     On 08-10-2013 07:23, Yuriy Shlepnev wrote:
>     > Bala,
>     >
>     > Yes, you definitely have to consider the properties of the
>     plating materials
>     > too, especially in the case of ENIG plated traces. A broadband
>     model of ENIG
>     > plated traces must include properties of all 3 materials -
>     copper, nickel
>     > and gold. Otherwise the model is not accurate enough for the
>     analysis of
>     > multi-gigabit data channels.
>     > See overview, analysis and experimental data for ENIG plated
>     traces at
>     > Y. Shlepnev, S. McMorrow, Nickel characterization for
>     interconnect analysis.
>     > - Proc. of the 2011 IEEE International Symposium on Electromagnetic
>     > Compatibility, Long Beach, CA, USA, August, 2011, p. 524-529.
>     > The paper is available at IEEE site
>     >
>
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=6038368&url=http%3A%2F
>     > %2Fieeexplore.ieee.org
>
<http://2Fieeexplore.ieee.org>%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D6038368
>     > You can also find the paper and presentation at
>     www.kb.simberian.com <http://www.kb.simberian.com> (in
>     > Publications and Presentations sections, require registration).
>     >
>     > Best regards,
>     > Yuriy
>     >
>     > Yuriy Shlepnev, Ph.D.
>     > President, Simberian Inc.
>     > 3030 S Torrey Pines Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89146, USA
>     > Office +1-702-876-2882; Fax +1-702-482-7903
>     > Cell +1-206-409-2368
>     > Skype: Shlepnev
>     >
>     > www.simberian.com <http://www.simberian.com>
>     > Simbeor - Accurate, Fast, Easy and Affordable Electromagnetic Signal
>     > Integrity Software
>     > 2010 and 2011 DesignVision Award Winner
>     >
>     >
>     > -----Original Message-----
>     > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>     <mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>     [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>     <mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On
>     > Behalf Of bala
>     > Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 2:47 AM
>     > To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>     > Subject: [SI-LIST] Skin depth,copper,gold
>     >
>     > Hi all,
>     > When I model my surface microstrip trace,generally,I am taking
>     properties of
>     > copper into consideration.and if my copper plated with gold or
>     nickel,I am
>     > suspecting if we really need to consider the properties of
>     plating material
>     > as well.One of the document says ,based on your skin depth
>     choose your
>     > material property.My question is at low freq my signal uses my
>     entire cross
>     > section(copper+gold) and at high frequency my skin depth shrinks
>     and my
>     > signal uses outer surface of my conductor(gold on top side
>     ,copper on bottom
>     > side).In both cases I should take both properties.How skin depth
>     plays a
>     > role in choosing the material property (copper or both)while
>     modeling
>     > microstrip?
>     > Regards
>     > bala
>     >
>     > ------------------------------------------------------------------
>     > To unsubscribe from si-list:
>     > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>     <mailto:si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> with 'unsubscribe' in the
>     Subject field
>     >
>     > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
>     > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>     >
>     > For help:
>     > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>     <mailto:si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> with 'help' in the Subject
>     field
>     >
>     >
>     > List forum  is accessible at:
>     > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list
>     >
>     > List archives are viewable at:
>     > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
>     >
>     > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
>     > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
>     >
>     >
>     > ------------------------------------------------------------------
>     > To unsubscribe from si-list:
>     > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>     <mailto:si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> with 'unsubscribe' in the
>     Subject field
>     >
>     > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
>     > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>     >
>     > For help:
>     > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>     <mailto:si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> with 'help' in the Subject
>     field
>     >
>     >
>     > List forum  is accessible at:
>     > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list
>     >
>     > List archives are viewable at:
>     > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
>     >
>     > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
>     > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
>     >
>     >
>     >
>
>     --
>     =============================
>     CMR Design Automation P Ltd
>     New Delhi    9811778891
>     Leading Edge EDA Technologies
>     =============================
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------
>     To unsubscribe from si-list:
>     si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>     <mailto:si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> with 'unsubscribe' in the
>     Subject field
>
>     or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
>     //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>
>     For help:
>     si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>     <mailto:si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> with 'help' in the Subject
>     field
>
>
>     List forum  is accessible at:
>     http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list
>
>     List archives are viewable at:
>     //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
>
>     Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
>     http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Scott McMorrow
> Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
> 16 Stormy Brook Rd
> Falmouth, ME 04105
>
> (401) 284-1827 Business
>
> http://www.teraspeed.com
>
> TeraspeedR is the registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting 
> Group LLC
>
>

--
=============================
CMR Design Automation P Ltd
New Delhi    9811778891
Leading Edge EDA Technologies
=============================



------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field

or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list

For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field


List forum  is accessible at:
               http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list

List archives are viewable at:     
                //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
 
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
                http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
  

------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field

or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list

For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field


List forum  is accessible at:
               http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list

List archives are viewable at:     
                //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
 
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
                http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
  

Other related posts: